Last weekend I had the opportunity to go to the Walk to Emmaus. I was a little apprehensive going in, but as my amazing cousin Ashley, who sponsored me, kept saying, “Amy, if you survived three years of seminary, you can survive three days of this.” So, I went.
Now, let me just preface what I’m about to say next:
- I went into this experience Wednesday with a positive attitude and open heart.
- If you are one of those people who thinks the Walk to Emmaus is the best thing since peanut butter and chocolate then you might not want to read this post.
- Nothing I say in this post is meant to offend or be hurtful. It is the honest reflection of my experience, and I hope that whoever reads this will see Truth and love in what I am saying.
As people have asked me how my Walk was, I have simply responded with “It was good.” Don’t get me wrong, the end result was good, but for the most part it was frustrating, annoying, weird, and made me angry. It took me almost the entire Walk to get over all of the things that kept me from spending time with my Father, and it shouldn’t have been that way. I was turned off at many points during the weekend, and if I hadn’t come into this weekend rooted deeply in my faith and understanding of Christ, I probably would have run screaming.
I will get into that later, but first let me say what was good about the weekend. (I promise I will not ruin any of the “surprises” during this post, for those of you who have not gone to Emmaus)
- The speakers were amazing. It was so encouraging to hear how God has worked in the lives of real people through their real pain, brokenness and victories. I wish I could have bottled some of those stories up and carried them with me, because my notes are just not enough.
- The community I was able to build with my table and other women during the weekend, and the community that will hopefully continue to grow. It was so great to spend time with real women, sharing wisdom, laughter, struggles, tears, and just being women. My table leaders were amazing! I am so thankful, especially for my assistant table leader. She helped me more than I think she realizes.
- The few quiet moments I was able to spend one on one with my Father. It was hard to find those moments, even when we had to be silent, but it was then that He really spoke truth and love into my heart. If those few moments were all I got from the weekend, that is enough.
- The people who served in the background. You guys are rockstars, and I am so thankful for how you emptied yourselves (and are always emptying yourselves) to serve people who you don’t even know. And, I don’t know who made up my bed that first night, but that was wonderful.
Okay, now on to what wasn’t so great about this weekend. I am not going to discuss the crazy bell ringing, not having a cell phone or knowing the time, or even the cold showers. Those things aren’t that important in the larger picture of my experience. Also, let me just say that my criticisms come from a heart of wanting the Walk to Emmaus to be an experience that can really reach people in an relevant and authentic way.
- My first impression. Wednesday night I wanted to run screaming. I figured out that night that they take your cell phones away, so you won’t call up your sponsor and get them to come pick you up and take you home. That’s what I want to do. One of the leaders said Wednesday night “Don’t judge your Walk by Wednesday night, or Thursday, or Friday, or any specific experience, but wait until the close on Saturday and judge your walk as a complete experience. This is what I have to say to that…If you don’t want me to judge my experience by my first impression, then give me a good first impression. My first impression was that I was being initiated into some weird “Christian” cult (and, I’m not sure that my impression changed until the very end on Saturday). I believe that as Christians we are called to represent Christ with truth and excellence, and I did not see that in the weekend.
- Following a script. Life doesn’t follow a script. Jesus didn’t follow a script. And the original walk to Emmaus with the men and Jesus definitely didn’t follow a script. Maybe it’s so everyone can have the same experience, but come on, no one ever has the same experience. I felt like I was being read to the entire weekend, and it seemed to suck so much life out of the stories and experiences shared. Christ came to bring us LIFE not a script.
- The music. Maybe I’m a music snob, but this goes back to representing Christ with excellence and relevance. The guy who led our music was a good musician, but wasn’t the best worship leader. And, don’t get me started on song selection. I’m sure most of the women there loved the songs we sang, but then most of them grew up singing those songs and still sing those songs in their churches. The truth of the matter is that culture is changing, and if the leadership of the Walk to Emmaus wants to reach the generations that will be coming on walks in just a few short years, they need to update their worship and make it more relevant. You will never reach the next generations effectively with what is being done now.
- Emotionalism and Misrepresentation. Okay, there was an experience during the weekend (I won’t give details) that was orchestrated to give us a “vision of heaven.” I just need to be clear in my saying that this was a complete misrepresentation of Heaven. My first thought in entering this experience was that I was entering a cult sacrifice (and I began to wonder if no one told me about it because I was the sacrifice), and the second was, “If this is what Heaven is going to be like, then I don’t want to go there.” It made me so angry, because in my limited understanding of Heaven, we will get to fellowship with other believers and see the face of God. That did not happen. There were also some experiences that were emotionally charged in a way that made me uncomfortable. I don’t need someone to play on my emotions to get me to give things over to God. His whispering in my heart is enough. So many times I just wanted to scream, “If all of you would get out of the way, maybe I could actually experience God.”
- Two words: singing and swaying
- Let me just give a last bit of advice. Not every person who goes on the Walk to Emmaus is going to want to “play the game.” Don’t make her feel guilty for it. Love her anyway.
So, the question is left, “What did I get out of the weekend?”
- I realized how grateful I am to be a part of a church that loves people, has amazing community, and is committed to being relevant and authentic. I love my church!
- Community is vital.
- He is faithful, and I must be faithful to Him. Because, after all, He is the One in control.
- God loves me in a amazingly real way. I can’t comprehend it. I haven’t been open to His love for so long, and if I can let Him love me, maybe I can learn to love myself. And, His love will overflow onto other people.
There you go.
129 comments
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October 1, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Jenny
Interesting…I’ve never heard of that program.
October 19, 2009 at 11:14 pm
patty
You don’t know how much this article means to me! My experience as a pilgrim on this weekend was much the same as yours. I have ‘worked’ several Emmaus weekends since because it is deemed the ‘Godly’ thing to do and I thought my attitude was just bad. Yuck! It still seems manipulative, secretive, and leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Never again! On my last work weekend we were even coached on how to be deceptive and not tell the ‘secrets’ if asked by a pilgrim. Basically we were to dance around the truth. As for working a walk-I believe a person with a true servant’s heart will have pure motives for their service. That service won’t become a competitive sport on a fabricated ritual weekend. And don’t get me started on how the Emmaus community has such an elitist exclusive mindset. How can you truly love others if you believe you are somehow more Christian than they are???? Thanks for being honest and saying the ‘emperor is wearing no clothes’ LOL! I love the Lord!!!! Emmaus not so much…..
May 23, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Lynn
I am so glad I read this article!! I have been asked for several years to attend a walk and have always resisted. NOT because I am not a Christian and not because I don’t love the Lord but because I can think for myself. I love to fellowship with other Christians but if you can’t discuss it and it is secret, then seriously…that does not make me want to go. I don’t want anyone to think that I am judging a program I have not attended, I’m not. I’m sure it has its good qualities, I just do not prefer that type of fellowship.
May 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Tom
… I love to fellowship with other Christians but if you can’t discuss it and it is secret, then seriously…that does not make me want to go. …
Right. There should be no “secrets” at all. It’s not a Masonic order.
Have you ever been involved in a “surprise party?” (The organizers don’t want to tell the guest(s) of honor. That would “spoil the surprise.”) The only “secrets” on an Emmaus weekend are roughly the equivalent.
Yeah, well, I don’t like surprise parties either.
Sadly, some people get all wrapped up in the “surprises,” and (IMHO) the “mysterious” air they try to present only detracts from the program, since many are put off by what they see as “secrecy.”
A former pastor alienated members of our church by encouraging (or as they saw it, pressuring) them to attend a weekend. Their reactions were similar to yours, and I could not blame them.
I will gladly tell you anything you want to know, including the fact that you do not need to attend the Walk to Emmaus to be be a good Christian.
April 30, 2011 at 11:17 am
Debby
Lynn,
I understand some of what she was saying. But I just went on the walk a few weeks ago. I’m not saying some of it wasn’t kind of “different” it was, but it was a good experience. The silence, I think was getting you to let go of the distractions so you could experience the walk. It’s NOT secret, they don’t want you to ruin the experience for other people going to it. As far as the songs…some of them I didn’t know..I was raised Catholic and we didn’t sing some of those songs, but it was fun and got you up out of your seat and letting go and doing things you may not have done for some time. My mind set was “Let go and Let God!” The love I felt on that walk was amazing. The selfless giving.
April 2, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Carol Walters
The Emmaus Community of SE Florida has made it a policy to never lie or “dance” around the truth. Yes we want to keep the surprises, but not at the expense of turning someone off or thinking this is a cult.
I went back in 1988 and have served on many a Chrysalis and Emmaus weekends. With each weekend God took away a bit more of my baggage that I had been carrying for many a year. It(no God) changed my life. Yet I too didn’t like it that much when I first went so many years ago.
We, our community, are all for honesty, so much so, that we are very open to tell everyone before they come that there will be 15 talks, that there will be singing and worship, lots of great food, but there are several surprises that we don’t want to spoil. Some know everything going in, so we don’t lie to them if they ask.
Thank God Emmaus and other 4th day communities exist.
November 4, 2009 at 7:08 am
Amy
Right On Patty!! During my Pilgrim Weekend, all I could think about was the story of “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. Even though I was told I was loved I was feeling very much 3rd class around certain volunteers. There really did seem to be this grand pecking order in which the pilgrims were nothing, until the weekend is over and they graduate up to private 1st class. There seems to be a great amount of pride at times to display how many numbers ago ones walk had been. The older the number, the greater their clout.
There was also a lot of whispering in front of the pilgrims the whole weekend. I learned in elementary school that that was impolite.
Now as for the author of the blog, I had the same feeling about the “heaven” experience. I was scared to go inside. I thought it looked like a satanic sacrifice with chanting. So, when I went in and saw that it was ok, I still was very uneasy and apprehensive. It seemed surreal. I was so ready to go HOME. I kept thinking: I know that heaven is a place where I shall see my Father FACE 2 FACE! This isn’t the same. I just felt that everyone must comply as robots and no one can have a thought negative of the situation. It was all very frustrating.
November 21, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Demcie Re
What is this “heaven” experience? I have been on the Walk and have served in over 10 Walks; I have also been on the Board—we don’t have a “heaven experience” mentioned. I know you can’t answer me here because of others who have not been on a walk. Could you tell me which day you experienced this?
Thanks!!
November 22, 2010 at 11:37 am
Tom
Re: the, “heaven experience,” I too have never encountered this. However, there should be no hesitancy to describe it here.
Honestly folks, there should be no secrecy regarding “The Walk to Emmaus.” Personal things which were shared in table discussions should remain “confidential,” just as anything a friend tells you “confidentially” in other circumstances but that’s different from say… describing a candlelight service or a prayer vigil.
Perceived (or actual) “secrecy” (creating an “in group”) only serves to alienate “outsiders,” which is not at all what “The Walk to Emmaus” is about (or at least not what it is supposed to be about.)
November 10, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Kathie
Hi Amy,
Thank you for a well-written and loving critique of the Emmaus program. I recently completed a walk myself and was feeling very alone in my analysis of the experience which matches yours 110%. The walk has been a transformational experience for so many of my dear friends who are of a different generation and it is difficult for me to decide how much or little to share with them about my true feelings regarding the experience. Somehow, knowing that a young, Christian-educated minister has the same thoughts I do is reassuring and will help me to love and honor my friends experience while simultaneously and discreetly distancing myself from the greater Emmaus community. I too was told not to analyze the walk by a one-day experience, but as a whole, and have made a sincere effort to do so. While I was able to take away some simply wonderful experiences overall, I still hold great concern that at least 6 pilgrims at my walk (about 18%) confessed to me or the community that they cried themselves to sleep on the first night. I implore the Emmaus community to take a good hard look at the intent of the retreat and to analyze with a panel of licensed mental health professionals (some unchurched) as to how they might accomplish their spiritual goals without creating a potentially traumatic first night experience. I am also hoping to learn that the Emmaus program has a process for follow-up with those women that may have “scratched-off spiritual and/or emotional life scabs” during the weekend…
November 19, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Mary
You and Patty, and anyone who has such a negative experience with the Walk, should get in touch with the Walk to Emmaus board at The Upper Room in Nashville TN and ask for a representative to come and monitor a weekend. There should be nothing secretive about Emmaus and all pilgrim questions should be answered truthfully. Our community had slipped into many practices that were meant to “enhance” the weekend and such practices detract from the experience, rather than add to it. Having our Weekend critiqued was painful and many people were irate, but it was necessary and we are better off from having had it done. The Upper Room should be able to put you back on the right path!
March 24, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Run from Emmaus
Mary,
This is *not* about having The Upper Room come and monitor anything. This about all of us who did not recieve needed and valuable information about The Walk. If I had been told I would have 2 hours of free time in 3 days ……….. I would never have gone.
I thought “retreat” – hummmmmm: some motivating speakers, meet new people, maybe have time to play cards with some new friends, take a shower every day (who would think you need to ask about that???!!!!)some R&R”. That was my idea of a “retreat”.
As for “The Upper Room should be able to put you back on the right path” – well …… I am on the Right Path. But I don’t believe there is only 1 path on this planet. Maybe it would help if you *informed* the Upper Room that theirs is not the only path; therefore people deserve to know the night before what the Sylibus is for the following day. Oh, sorry! That would create a need for watches, wouldn’t it.
November 21, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Mel
I am so sorry you had that type of experience. I know I have worked many walks and try to make sure that when there try not to be secretive about anything. You have questions? I try to tell you the truth without ruining the surprise. As for the Heavenly experience, I personally have not seen or heard anything in our neck of the woods that was chanting, satanic, or cultish. I remember my walk was very hard for me. I was not ready, was too young and too immature in my life and in Christ. Since then I have worked a few walks that have helped me. But the one that really made a difference was the Chrysalis. That is the same thing, only for teens and young adults. Since I never had a chance to grow up, this was the first that I really understood everything that was going on. I saw changes in the girls around me and I saw changes in myself. I could finally begin to forgive ppl in my past. I personally have a closer walk with Christ now than I did years prior. I enjoy working walks when I could. I was out for years due to health issues and I was supported by many community members. I am very thankful I made friends thru the community. So again, I am sorry you had such a hard time. Maybe it is a different area and that is how they do things, (strange) or things have been changed by others there. I know for ours here in the West coast, we try real hard to keep ours the same as Nashville has asked us to do. As so doing, I have seen changes from the way we used to do things, our way, to how they do them on a national basis. It was hard for me to begin with, but I am getting used to it. Good luck and hope you do not give up on Emmaus.
November 21, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Cheri
Wow. You must have had a real bad experience. But, my walk experience was very different from yours. For one thing, my entire family went to the walk before I did mine. I wondered why there was so much whispering and secret. But, then some one said something to me that made sense. They asked me what I was like around Christmas time. Did I whisper as to not allow my child to know what his Christmas present was? Or did I simply tell him what he was getting for Christmas, and spoil the grand moment of opening the present? I had to admit, as a loving parent that sometimes I do whisper in front of my child. I don’t do it because I am planning something evil. I whisper to allow the moment of opening the present to be a more powerful and fun event for him. As my son grew up, he started guessing what the presents were. He would shake the packages, weigh them, and from time to time sneak into my room to see what I was wrapping. The end result? My son knew that he was getting what he asked for–long before he got the present. And sometimes this “knowing” made the experience less effective. Sometimes he did not get exactly what he wanted. He would start begging me to go to the store to return the gift. That made Christmas day suck.
The same is true of The Walk to Emmaus. Workers whisper around the pilgrims because they are trying to plan the next events. They know what the upcoming presents are, they want everyone to be able to experience the fullness of opening each present one at a time. But, the experience will not be fully accepted if the pilgrim tries to weigh, measure, anticipate, or unwrap the presents too soon.
Reading your message, I realized something: you are a lot like my son. You are intelligent and rational. As a rational person, you have certain expectations. If these expectations are not met, you are not happy. When Christmas comes around (or when God tries to bless you in a way that you are unfamiliar with), you begin to enter a self protection mode. You begin not to trust what is going on around you. You reject what is happening wanting only what you are familiar with. Thus you missed out on the experience. In fact, you missed the whole point of the Walk. You saw what you believed to be a potential for people trying to harm you. But, no one was there to hurt you. That was just your imagination working over time. In reality you were in a building full of people who were trying to show you God’s love–through their acts of kindness and generosity. These people, many whom did not know you from Adam, several who’s occupations are highly demanding in this world, these people gave up their weekend for you. They took valuable time off their important jobs to serve you as Jesus did his disciples.
They put their lives and families on the side to spend time with you. They were there to feed you–not just with a ton of food, but with lesson after lesson of God’s love. These people gave up their sleep, their comfort, and for one weekend in their lives focused completely on you and your relationship with God. Yet, you did not ask for people. Did you? You wanted only God. God sent you people to show himself to you. The face of Christ was upon your servers. God’s voice was in the talks. But, that is not what you wanted. And so you missed it all.
Scripts: Sure the speakers where using rough scripts. But, they also prayed for God to speak through them. They also wrote their life stories into those talks. People prayed while the talks were given. They prayed that God would speak to you through the talk. The script is important to keep people from talking on their own agenda. It’s a lot like what seminarians do in Hermeneutics Class. And as the speakers told you over and over again: “Each talk was formed upon the scripture.”
As you tried to analyze your weekend, you missed the whole point. God was there with you. But, perhaps you were not ready for the way God was trying to come to you. Perhaps you need more of a “silent retreat.”
However, before you give up completely on the Walk to Emmaus, please take one more chance. Go work a walk. Then you will get a chance to be the one giving. Perhaps you are more of a giver than a receiver. And if that is not good for you, then feel free to walk away. But, please do not talk bad (any longer) about some thing you do not understand. We are not a cult. We are not a secret society. Those words are simply gossip. And God does not favor gossip.
It really is too bad that you can only see bad in The Walk To Emmaus.
December 19, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Michelle
With all due respect, the author did not “only see the bad”.. She started with the things that she really enjoyed about it. Things that I believe are some of the best parts of the weekend.
I think she brings up some valid issues that need to be addressed within all of these communities. And while my experience was great and life-changing, I do recognize that everyone will not receive it the same way. As someone who serves on the team, it is our job to love the guests and serve the guest, help to make sure that their needs get met through the course of that weekend, and then get out of the way so that God can do His thing in each individual’s heart. And we should be doing it as unto the Lord. Everyone will not be 100% pleased. We don’t know if God will use that weekend to break up fallow ground, plant a seed, water a seed, fertilize a seed, or bloom a flower. There is no real way for us to judge whether someone “missed it all” or got everything that was intended for them. That’s really not our business… Afterall it’s designed to be a PERSONAL spiritual renewal.
There are some definite areas of ministry that need improvement… because we are all human beings and we are all fallible and growing in Christ. Please do not take it personally if you perceive that someone does not appreciate your sacrifice… afterall it’s at those times they we have a great opportunity to identify with Christ. And to the Author, since you have come to the understanding that it is not a cult, I would encourage you to pray about being a part of a team so that you can help to make the experience better for others. I think you can really add value to the ministry.
De Colores!
March 2, 2010 at 10:53 pm
JOSE
“De Colores!” My dear friend, that is a Cursillo expression not a Walk to Emmaus one.
Since I am a Cursillista, a BIG De Colores to you!!!
June 9, 2010 at 1:56 pm
beverley
I am glad I kept on reading and finally found something positive. I was invited to go for the walk and am not familiar with the retreat so I was doing some research. I read reports that had me asking God for direction on my plans. I was about to stop reading and leave it alone. Lo ad behold, the next reading was you positive report. I will participate.
Thank you for the message
October 4, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Connie
I agree with you Cheri, It was a most wonderful experience feeling the true deep love God really has for us. I just came home yesterday from my Walk to Emmaus. One of the main things I felt was the love God has for us. If these Angels, in the background doing all the work for someone like me, out of love, how much more does our Heavenly Father God want to do for us? The overwhelming love was something else.
The only thing weird about my first night was after the excitement of being there and wanting to get to know the other pilgrams on the walk, we were asked to be in silent till the morning. That was hard at first, but then it turned out to be such a blessing to just spend time, me and God alone and prepare myself to bask in His Glory.
I enjoyed every thing that just kept coming. God’s agape gifts just kept coming and what He has prepared for us just gets better. In Christ, Connie
December 22, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Edie Grewell
Cheri – It’s been a year since your response to the negative critique; I only just started looking at Emmaus online. Your response was right on, loving but firm, “Speaking the Truth in Love.” My Walk was many years ago in Central Texas, and it changed my life. Although I have been a Christian and in the Church literally since birth, I needed that close walk that Emmaus brought to me. Thanks again.
November 28, 2011 at 5:16 am
John
Thanks Cheri for a well written response. I do believe the writer of this blog did see some of the good but I agree with everything you said. As an older Christian I also know that there are some Christians that have a more judgmental attitude towards different ministries and I have seen how sometimes the work of Christ is hurt by this attitude. Sometimes His work is hampered when someone opens their mouth espousing what they perceive to be truth when in fact it is just ones own misunderstanding of the situation.
February 2, 2012 at 10:52 am
Walked away
With all due respect, Cheri, I don’t really understand how your response is related to the original blog post at all. The blogger related a list of good things she had gotten from the retreat, described her overall experience as “good,” and then strongly criticized a list of specific things, and then finished up with a list of “what she got out of the retreat,” which, again, were all positive things.
If she truly did have a bad experience, she has bent over backwards to make people like you, who love Emmaus, feel okay about her bad experience.
In response, you have told her that she could only see bad in Emmaus, that God wanted to show Himself to her in the servers and the talks and she was blind to this (if you scroll back up you will see she specifically praised the servers and the talks), and you have described your son’s overly inquisitive and demanding behavior around Christmastime and stated your insight that she is like him and this is why she didn’t like the retreat–even though the secrecy was not among the things she criticized.
I see that you really wish to encourage people about Emmaus, but I wonder if you are responding to the experience of someone else you know, rather than the blogger’s experience.
February 2, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Jay
I do agree with the recent post of Walked Away that the original poster (OP) was quite fair and balanced in her praises and criticism. To say that the OP “can only see bad” seems to indicate that you did not read her post thoroughly enough. Please re-read it when you get a chance.
A few things on which I wish to comment. First, I take exception with your notion at the end of your post that “perhaps you were not ready for the way God was trying to come to you.” I have heard similar comments from Emmaus folks over the years, and this has always bugged me. How do any of us know how God is trying to get through to anyone else? Did God tell you (or others) on team what his plan was that weekend? In the end, Emmaus team members – who, in my experience, are well-intentioned and loving – are simply leading a weekend-long retreat. They have not received any significant training in spiritual development (they usually do two overnight trainings before the walk). They vary in their place in their walk with God. Yet some (not all) seem to think they are some extra-special conduit for God, and that they know more about God and his plans than other people do. God can speak through any of us, Emmaus team member or not. We have no idea what His plans are. Perhaps the OP did not feel God in her experience due to something a team member did wrong (and, as humans, team members do have faults), or perhaps the Emmaus curriculum does not work well with everyone. To put this back on the OP seems overly judgmental, and makes big assumptions (as I believe you did when you compared her to your son, after just reading a few paragraphs of her writing).
And that brings me to me second point. I also get frustrated when some Emmaus community members take the credit for the times when the walk is great for someone, but seem to blame the participant when it does not work. Emmaus folks talk of how the weekend transformed people, how it gave them a “mountaintop” experience, and how powerful Emmaus is. But, often, when someone does not like the walk, it is chalked up to the “person not being ready”, or they “did not get it”. All I ask is that Emmaus folks be consistent – either they take all credit for the good AND the bad (the bad being those times when someone does not like the walk, thinks it was ineffective, etc.), or they simply take no credit and state that, in the end, how the weekend works is really between God and the participant. Taking credit and passing off of blame does not work for me.
Third, I do not think that Emmaus is a cult, and the OP does not call it a cult, but did describe one experience – Dying Moments or Candlelight, perhaps – as seeming cultish at first glance. I do believe that Emmaus (and Tres Dias, etc.) use some techniques that are used by cults, and that is something about which Emmaus should be careful. I do think that there is a clear “us and them” feeling to Emmaus. You even used the word “we”, as though you are separate from “us”. Emmaus participants are called “the Emmaus Community”, which separates them from others. Emmaus members have separate website pages they can access, have crosses that no one else is supposed to get, and are invited to events and ceremonies that are not open to the public. Emmaus uses a curriculum based, in good part, on surprise and secrecy. With all of that being said, I see why people see it as a secret society. When Candlelight can be attended by anyone, when the weekend schedule is posted on the Upper Room website, when I can give anyone an Emmaus cross even if they did not go on a weekend, or when anyone can sign up for the prayer vigil – that is when the secret society talk might end.
Fourth, and lastly, your comment about the poster missing the point, and reminding her that God was there with her, again indicates that you missed HER point. She specifically listed quiet times with the Lord as one of the good parts of the weekend. Based on her comments, I think she knew that God was there, and they had some special moments together. I believe her comments about the weekend are not a reflection on God not being there, but on Emmaus not working for her. It does not work for everyone, and I believe that understanding that fact is important for all Emmaus folks.
November 27, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Christine McDonald
I went on my walk in Spring 2009 after putting it off for three years. I’m 69 years old and have health problems. Yes, I wanted to sleep in, my bed was comfy and warm. It was the groans and moans from the younger girls who started my day off with a laugh. Do you think Jesus and his disciples had it any better? I saw a group of strangers come together to comfort each other and work together to accomplish a goal. I also had awesome speakers, one of which had the exact same abusive parent as I had, even down to the same metal spatula. I learned it wasn’t just me. When I laid my burdens down, I laid down burdens I had carried for 60 years and learned to forgive, truly forgive. I was set free. As for the music, did you expect a choir of angels?? What did they have in the days of Jesus? Flutes, drums, lyres, horns – the Bible says “make a joyful noise.” What I heard was praises to my God and what I felt was joy in my heart. Who says you can only praise and give thanks by being quiet and being on your knees?? What I learned during Emmaus was that I had been selfish all my life. I wanted God to make right the things that were done to me in my life. On the way home and still on my mountain, I silently wondered what I was going to do next and then it dawned on me, Christ came to be a servant to us. I had experienced Agape love for four days from total strangers so that I would come to really know the love of Christ and I decided that I also would be a servant. If its good enough for Christ, it’s good enough for me. I didn’t need seminary to tell me about Christ, I experienced Him during Emmaus. I learned what it means to love someone as Christ loves me. Sometimes one has too much education about simple things. Emmaus isn’t all about you, it’s all about Him. Too bad some of you did not get that message. That’s very sad. My joy now comes from serving female inmates with Kairos, the very people I had the least amount of love for, something I was very cold about. I have received more from those women than I am able to give back and I get letters of thanks for sharing my life with them. Do I feel like a servant? I walked into prison with three children of my own, all grown and gone and walked out with six new sisters in Christ. God did his work in me in His own time. I didn’t have time for my children and didn’t the money for extras. I now have the time and the money to make a difference in these women and God provided all of it. My children? All Christians, all grandchildren Christians, and one G-gc baptized recently at age 12. I saw God do a powerful work through me. I owe my life to Emmaus. It is too bad that a watch and cell phones are more important than learning what God has done for others. I am afraid that those of you who dismiss Emmaus closed the door too soon on your experience.
October 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Connie
Love it Christine, love it. God Bless you. Connie
December 10, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Paul
^^^great post Christine^^^
Emmaus is not for everyone. There have been more than 2 million people worldwide experience a 3 day experience counting all the branches of the original Catholic Cursillo. It is safe to assume that some people will not enjoy the weekend and some perhaps even be offended. The vast majority however are blessed and experience a renewal of their faith walk.
How can you blame the cold showers on Emmaus? Do you think that was intentional and a common experience around the globe? I’m sure there are weekends where the food is very institutional but hopefully people don’t blame that on the Walk to Emmaus. The showers, food, beds, cabin comfort, etc are all factors associated with the facility, not the program.
When I read this it seemed the good outweighed the bad in some cases. You were very upset about the script being followed but that is such a small part of the entire program. Were the talks scripted? (I realize they may have read the talk but are the talks the same at every Emmaus Walk?) Was the table discussion and community you said was positive scripted? Was the discussion at breakfast, lunch and dinner scripted? Let’s say you spend 40+ hours (not counting your scripted sleep time) on a Walk… you could read the script straight through in about an hour so the script is about 2.5% of the weekend.
The music selection was a direct result of the music team on your particular Walk and is different for every Walk, even those in your own community. Again, that detracted from your specific Walk but shouldn’t reflect poorly on Emmaus in general.
Finally, what I like most about your post is the final “What did I get out of the weekend?” Many people come to a complete realization of God’s love on their Walk. Pilgrims feel God’s love expressed through the talks, the music, the devotions, the agape, the community, the servants in the background, etc. I think you experienced these on your Walk but most likely already knew of God’s unfailing love for you before the weekend.
I am so glad you have a strong, servant minded, bible teaching church! I pray everyone does, not just those that have been on Walks. The sole pupose of Emmaus is to build Christian leaders *FOR THEIR LOCAL CHURCH* so they are empowered to be disciples at home, at work and in the world.
December 29, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Dawn
I appreciated the comments of the author…as stated by a couple people who replied..the Walk isn’t for everyone. That is not meant to be a “snobbish” comment, but one that means God has many different avenues to reach His people and the Walk to Emmaus is only one of them. For myself, I got more out of the follow-up, the community that generated in the small group AFTER the walk. I had a good experience on my weekend, but I have had an even better experience in the past 13 years as a servant in my church because of what the community of Emmaus has meant to me.
The other thing that many communities struggle with is “tradtion vs. following the model”. If the model of Emmaus is deviated from, this is where some of the hard experience comes forth.
Good sponsorship is key to a good pilgrim experience. I have seen many pilgrims who were not at a point in their faith journey to be on a weekend. This program is for those who are mature in their faith, need refreshment and it is NOT for baby Christians who are still finding their way or for those who have not yet found their way at all. Much of what is shared may go over their head because of that lack of Spiritual maturity.
Emmaus is what it is. It is not a cult, or secret society. There should be no secrets. There should only be truth told to potential pilgrims.
For me it is a continuing life changing experience!!
December 31, 2009 at 4:55 am
Gene
I was writing a letter to a young man from our church who is attending a Chrysalis walk this weekend. I found your site and read with great interest, and several chuckles.
My thoughts are very similar to yours. When I was first asked to attend a walk in 1990, it was walk #3 for a new “community.” My minister (and friend) wanted to sponsor me. A couple of days before the start day, I got word that I had to travel to Atlanta for a meeting on Monday morning (the walk ended late Sunday afternoon). When I said “I’ll have to take my car to the walk so that I could leave as soon after closing” I was told “you can’t take your car.”
This immediately piqued my paranoia. “Why” I asked. “Just trust me” was the response. . . and it didn’t give me any great comfort. I tried to negotiate further, but my minister finally said “let’s schedule another time.” Another Emmaus veteran in our church questioned my “faith” at this point.
The “faith” question caused me to delay any thought of attending another walk for 2 years.
I reluctantly agreed to try it again in 1992, mostly because a good friend was going to be on the walk.
I can’t remember everything about the first night, but it was creepy. I went to see the lead minister and told him it was time for me to leave and go back home.
He convinced me to stick it out the first night, and it did get ecome more tolerable with each hour. Long story short, I am glad that I stayed.
I loved the candlelight service as several of our church members were in the crowd, and it was very pretty. I did feel God’s presence there.
On closing day, I came forward and stated that I’d truly enjoyed the experience. I mentioned that I had secretly feared that I was about to be involved in some sort of cult experience.
No one laughed.
Still, the good outweighed the bad.
For the past 18 years, I’ve been involved in various ways with the program. I was a speaker a couple of times. I was even called upon one time to try to keep a “wayward” pilgrim who was contemplating an escape.
Mostly I’ve done an Agape task that is easy for me to do, and offers a nice touch.
I’ve also seen some things that caused me to write my comments.
1. When I was “practice presenting” my talk I told a harmless joke (not dirty, certainly not sacreligious). I found that humor was not allowed.
2. My wife was in charge of Agape on a walk. My daughter was about 3 at the time. I delivered some gifts to the ladies, and while there, my wife asked me if I would run to the closest pharmacy and get some Tylenol for a pilgrim who was suffering a severe headache. To simplify things, I left my little girl with Mommy to help make Agape. What more fun could a little girl ask for than to help cut, paste and color. When I returned my wife was furious because one of the Elite Emmaus members chastised her for allowing a child to be onsite. Strictly prohibited. I said some un-Presbyterian things as I left.
3. A church friend said something to the tune of “Emmaus people are special Christians.” Nonsense. I’m a Christian neophyte compared to so many Christians in my church.
4. At a closing event, the pilgrims were asked if they’d like to make a statement. No one moved toward the podium. We (Emmaus vets) stared at the Pilgrims, and they stared back at us. Several minutes passed until one pilgrim came forward and said something to the effect “well I guess one of us should say something or we’ll never get to go home.” No one laughed.
5. A wonderful, faithful Christian friend went to a Walk and was confronted by two Emmaus Vets who didn’t feel she was “getting it”. They grilled (and this is the correct term) her on why she wasn’t “submitting” to the spirit of the walk. My friend was totally turned-off on the event due to this. This was painful to me as I thought she would enjoy the experience and had recommended it.
To summarize, The Walk to Emmaus was simply a part of my Christian journey. Nothing more, nothing less. I enjoyed it, but it didn’t enpower with me with ANY extra-credit Christianity.
February 23, 2010 at 12:44 am
Will Collins
This Thursday, Feb. 25 at 4:PM, my sponsor will pick me up and take me to begin my first Walk to Emmaus (Luke 24: 13-35). Thank you all for helping to relieve some anxiety I’ve been feeling.
I have recently moved to a new area and been attending a Methodist Men’s monthly breakfast meeting. One of the Men suggested that I might enjoy a weekend with men on a Walk to Emmaus. He gave me an application to fill out. He said he’d take care of everything, he’d drive me to and from the Walk and take me out to dinner on the way to the walk.
After I gave him the filled out application, I then received a letter, from a stranger, telling me what I needed to bring and where the walk would take place. If I had any questions, I should call him, and there would be no showers. My sponsor has been very secretive as have others in the Men’s group who have participated in the Walk, this letter got me wondering about what’s going on.
Being a man of color, I’m challenged when it comes to fully trusting White Men. It’s further challenging when they are secretive. “Am I the one being sacrificed?”.
It’s amazing how wonderful events and other very worthwhile activities manifest themselves once I had made the commitment to participate in the walk. There are all kinds of great things happening; at Church, in the greater Community and in my extended Community this weekend, that pull at me to back out of the Walk. Not to mention, the feeling that I’m being sucked in, by some cult. Then I find out that I have to leave my cell phone’s, Laptop, watch and who knows what else behind (cult captive).
After finding this website and reading your thoughtful comments, I now am actually looking forward to taking my first Walk to Emmaus. Thanks again to all of you who cared enough to comment. My anxiety is certainly, somewhat relieved.
May the Peace of the Lord be with you.
October 25, 2011 at 2:58 am
Walked away
Thank you for this comment, which I mostly really appreciate. (And thank you to the original author whose post I similarly appreciate.)
This one thing you said troubled me: that you were called on to keep a “wayward” pilgrim who was contemplating an escape. Did you in fact attempt to keep him? Why was he contemplating an escape? And why did it have to be an “escape” and not a simple decision to leave? And did you succeed in “keeping” him?
The reason this gets me is that I just escaped from a Way of Christ weekend (the Brethren in Christ version of Emmaus.) And escape is absolutely the only word for what I did. I had five people, each in turn, attempt to “keep” me. (Actually with the first three the issue was not yet escape, but my shocking decision to go to bed at 10:30 even though the program was not over. That was when I decided to escape.) Their sweet, gentle, concerned-for-my-soul relentless pressure raised in me a rising sense of panic and, yes, spiritual oppression.
Like you at your first weekend, I didn’t have a car available. The only reason I was able to escape at all was that two trusted friends lived and worked at the retreat center. I laid a plan to cut through the woods to their house and claim sanctuary. It didn’t quite go off as planned (hence the last two people of the five, a great deal of sobbing on my part, and the worst of the spiritual oppression) but I did eventually make it there, thank God.
The things you say in your points 1-5 exactly resonate with the spiritual oppression I am speaking of, especially the phrase “No one laughed.” That is what I saw at my retreat. There wasn’t joy or laughter where such things would be expected. But there was full awareness, in me and in everyone, of what types of emotions, experiences, and positive statements and prayers were expected. I think that if I had stayed there would have been a very real fear in me of what people would think if I did not give a positive testimony at the end of the retreat. To maneuver people into temptation to lie about their experiences with God (of all things!) is just plain wrong. It is sin.
January 6, 2010 at 9:06 am
Paul
Great post Gene… I really appreciate the detail you shared.
I wonder if anyone else experiences the “no humor” problem you cited. Humor has been a big part of every Walk I have been involved with. Not that it is scripted but when you get 50 guys together for a weekend, there’s bound to be laughter. I imagine it’s the same with the ladies!
I know for a fact the situation you described in #2 would not be a problem in our community. Again I’m wondering if other people have heard of this happening around the country.
I hate to even comment on #5, but I will try to be ‘nice’. People like the two Emmaus Vets in your story do more to harm Emmaus that any other single factor.
March 24, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Run from Emmaus
#5 happened to me. I tried to skip chapel and breakfast on Day 2 – 8 women to 1 cabin with just 2 showers/sinks/toilettes and I had not had a shower in 2 + days. I was in the shower when a “servant” pulled back the curtain and told me to get out; that she would go to the chapel and have the service held for 15 minutes until I got there. I’m naked and wet and someone one who is not my mother in a place that is not my mother’s house is angrily telling me what to do?
January 10, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Alan
Greetings and Peace,
I am thoughtfully sharing an Agape Gift penned by thy Heart.
O Thine Heart an Hourglass; Traversing Sands O Time.
With Blessings and Peace this New Year,
Alan; Walk #112
_______________________________________________
O Christ Sonrise Saviour Giveth New Birth
O God Divine Starrelight O’er Heaven Earth
Golden Great Street Gleaming ; Seaglass Glistens
Ocean Wavelets Roaring ; Hearken Listen
Living Waters Floweth ; River Streaming
Delight Jesus Beaming ; Fields A Dreaming
Lovely Saviour Beaming ; Heaven Gleaming
Orange Sonrise Gleaming ; Fountain Streaming
Visions Angels Winging ; Winter Snoweth
Embrace Jesus Neareth ; Thy Heart Gloweth
Dawning Sonrise Beaming ; Seasons Floweth
Ocean Beaches Gleaming ; Seafire Gloweth
Visions Angels Singing ; Freedom Ringing
Embrace Saviour Neareth ; Thy Heart Singing
Sonrise Saviour Beaming ; Spirit Gloweth
Orange Sonset Gloweth ; Rivers Floweth
Newlife Waters Floweth ; Oceans Roaring
Golden Heaven Gleaming ; Thy Heart Soaring !
“O Gold Love Dove Song”
30 December, 2009
A.W.M.
January 12, 2010 at 1:38 am
Alan
Luke 24:13-35 (New International Version)
On the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
19 “What things?” he asked.
“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.”
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
January 18, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Diane
I did the walk in January on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Apprehensively due to the controversy that I have read. The cult that I had been told that Emmaus was did not exist in my walk. The total weekend was Christ-focused, faith-based, and full of real-life experiences; definitely not scripted. I could not have been more surprised by the outpouring of love and spiritual awareness. Trust me, there were more KJV scriptures read to me during that 72 hours than was spoken in the last months in my church. I guess that all walks are not the same, as I participated in no experience that was supposed to represent a vision of heaven. And our music was a mix of old time hymns, contemporary music, Christian rock, songs from children’s Sunday school, and even a Jesus rap. I sense that the leaders can make or break your experience during the 72 hours.
I believe that your relationship with the trinity is a personal one–shaped by your experiences, your level of trust and faith, and your willingness to explore and learn. Your path is your own. If you listen, God will lead you either on the walk or not. I looked for the signs that I was supposed to be there and they came…first day in a sunrise, second day in a calm ocean with a pod of dolphins swimming and playing, and on the last day a rainbow over the ocean after a stormy night. Trust God and yourself. Your heart will know the way.
January 23, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Alan
Each “Walk” is indeed scripted and orchestrated; by God, the Master Conductor; the Creator Of Heaven and Earth.
January 26, 2010 at 2:36 am
archangel66
I appreciate your comments. I too had very similar emotional and psychosocial responses. I remember telling a friend I was attending with, that I felt that I was being indoctrinated into “cultish” activities.
The men I attended with have great hearts, and I was encouraged by their levels of participation and response, but too much of it felt contrived for me. Like you said…I do not appreciate someone playing on my emotions to elicit a “God” response. My friend and I were easily the youngest men at our walk. We did a little “hijacking.” We broke into the game room at our location and engaged in unapproved social activities. We played ping pong and pool. Many of the other attendees joined us for what was some really cool fellowship. Just not something the leaders were comfortable with.
I think that the Walk may be more appropriate for “young” Christians just exploring their spirituality. My friend had attended seminary, and I had had a “mountain top/valley” experience that forced me to face my Savior.
But in the end, my Walk was “good” like yours. Nothing I would ever do again with the exception of AGAPE. That was amazing.
Thank you for your honesty and sharing with us.
Jason
February 22, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Jennifer
I have not attended the “Walk”; however, my husband and his father attended in Sept. 2009. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law had both attended prior. I was skeptical of my husband attending because anythime I asked my family members what happened at the “Walk”, they only responded with “I can’t tell you.” I told my husband before he left that I really wanted to know what he did over the weekend. I told him not to come home and say, “I can’t tell you.” When he returned Sunday night, he began telling me about how he felt about his experience. When I said that was great, but what did you do, he responded with “Now Jennifer, I can’t tell you.” I felt totally betrayed by my spouse. I am a Christian and an intelligent woman. The Bible say that we are to go and tell the world, not go and NOT tell the world…especially the people you love! To me the comment “I can’t tell you,” sends red flags all over the place. Needless to say, there is a huge wedge that has been created between us. Just yesterday four more family members returned from the walk including my mother-in-law and another sister-in-law. Before they returned, a few family members were laughing about the fact that they wouldn’t tell anything about the weekend. I am really struggling. I understand the “opening a present” illustration, but again, it all sounds fishy to me. I feel like it’s a script that they have all been given to tell anyone who asks about the walk. All the secrecy just makes me angry. I will never attend the walk! If the Walk people really want to make a difference, they will quit acting like members of a cult and be open and honest with those who have not attended. Your Christianity is no better that mine just because of Emmaus!
February 28, 2010 at 10:59 pm
Lawrene
Wow…so sorry you see the WTE as a negative. And having not been on one yourself, if you ask any question, and of us can answer you…but if you are asking for a blow-by-blow itinerary of the weekend, I can just tell you that it is full of food, fellowship and lots of love. It IS about the EXPERIENCE, not what you DO. It is about full surrender to the love of Christ, and His sacrifices…
June 8, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Penny
Wow, Lawrene. If it’s about the experience and not what one does, then, pray tell, why on earth would former attendees say, “I can’t tell you.”?? That answer so does not make any sense, in the context of your explanation. This stuff is very much what’s complained about when people say former attendees are not honest.
No, I haven’t been. Yes, I was considering going on a walk to emmaus because friends have found it a good experience. However, the elitest attitudes I’ve seen (from them, as well as many posters who are in their own 4th day) is totally un-Christian. The Scriptures tell us to examine such things and to judge for ourselves if it be of Christ or other …. elitism is of other, my friends. Pure and simple.
The WTE week-ends may be scripted, but not all are authored by the Holy Spirit, obviously.
November 1, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Cheryl
I just read your post about the Walk to Emmaus. When I first went on the walk (1991), we were asked not to talk about it so as not to ruin the weekend for others so that they could have their own experience with preconceived (or forced) expectations. The Upper Room has since dropped that and now tells us to answer all questions honestly without evasion. If you go to their website, http://www.upperroom.org/emmaus; they answer a lot of your questions.
February 1, 2011 at 9:51 pm
carolyn
I agree with you. Your spouse is called to leave and cleve his family to you, regardless of WTE. If a husbnad and wife can’t share intimately and honestly with one another then the “experience” has been put above the marriage. Our walk is to be with Christ, not WTE.
Why don’t couples go together? The 2 people walking to Emmaus where Clepos and his wife. Don’t beleive me? We know from scripoture that Cleopas’ wife was there, at the crucifiction and they returned home and “they” invited Jesus to sat with them and eat – in that culture do you think 2 men made dinner? Why call it Emmaus and do it seperately?
FOr real, the secret thing feels culty. We are to be discerning and lead astray – how can one discern with no knowledge – information. Trust me you will reply, well, I’m called to trust Jesus, if he says go, I will.
April 11, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Susan Young
I would be leery of any activity that people “can’t tell you” about. There is no reason your husband cannot tell you what he did. I have been on a WTE, I have served on many walks, and have sponsored many people. I have never kept anything secret, however, I have told them that there are a few “surprises” that I won’t share- not because they are some big cultish secret, but because some things are better if they are not anticipated. If I tell you about something, and how much it meant to me, yada yada, then you spend time wondering when is such and such going to happen and anticipating how wonderful (or dreadful) it will be for you, when in fact it will not be the same for you because God has different plans for you than he does for me.
As I mentioned above, I have served on several WTE and I have been told every time that you never, ever lie to someone on the walk. If they ask you a question, you answer it truthfully. As to the ban on cell phones and watches. What’s the big deal about that? Cell phones and watches are distracting. You are there to spend 72 hours focusing on your relationship with Christ. I always tell the people I sponsor that if you have a watch on, and you look at it you are almost automatically going to start thinking about what you would be doing if you were home (or work, or wherever) at this time, or wondering if the kids got home from school all right, did their dad feed them well enough, how many dirty dishes are waiting on me to get home, etc. Please believe me when I tell you that every servant there wants you to have every opportunity to grow closer to Christ without the distractions of the “real world”. For 72 hours they will strive to meet each and every need you have, making a cell phone and watch totally irrelevant. It is not a rule to terrify or control you.
Bottom line is, the experience is different for everyone. One should not attend a WTE to please anyone else. You go because you feel God calling you to attend. It’s too bad your husband and family are making you feel like an outsider and keeping secrets from you. Shame on them. I went on my original walk 11 years after first approached (partly because of this very attitude from some people in my church; that is when I felt God calling me to go, not other people pressuring me to go. You are no less a Christian for not attending a WTE, and those who have attended are not better than other Christians. We are all a part of the body of Christ- no one part any better than another.
July 25, 2011 at 12:07 pm
sheila
I had that experience with my friends whom I not all that friends with anymore. They laughed at my curiousity when asked about their tres dias retreat I just went on the internet and found out what the fuss was. The simple mind control of these cursillo based oraganization is seemingly strong it did create divisions with in our small group at church.The bible as much to say about divisions in the body. They were in there own world we were not privy to it. I told them flat out I will not go because of the cloak and dagger. There is no wisdom going somewhere you don’t know and not being told the truth. I would never teach my children it’s okay to go with anyone in secret and blindly follow the herd. What kind of parental example is that?
2 of the women did not appear to have a totally good experience.
One man acted loopy and stupid. He told me it was the best most satisfiying experience ever and couldn’t explain why.Don’t anticipate he kept saying.
it all blew over a few weeks later
July 26, 2011 at 4:03 am
sheila
More Spains’s haunting history at the birth of castillo’s you did not know
Cursillo’s started in world war 2 era spain. Franco was Spain’s oppressive brain washing dictator supported by hitler and Moussolini. This is the time and place of much brain washing fascist like Moussolini who ruled Italy. Who said
“For the masses are nothing but a herd of sheep….The roman greeting, songs, formula’s all are essential to fan the flame of enthusiasm that keeps a movement into being.” Moussolini
Sound familar?
Songs, formula’s or methods as cursillo’s call them, emotional highs to keep a movement, pressure to go with the crowd; the herd. Cursillo’s,walk of emmaus, & tres dias call themselves a movement. When I was offered to go to one of these nobody told me I was entering into a movement! I did not like not being told that straight up.
Europeans at the time didn’t know they were being brain washed by there leaders. Satan was referred to as a serpent who is the most subtle and crafty creature in the garden the bible tell us.
Leaders in these movement don’t even know what they are using. Brain washing tactic that live on for generations in the church after the fall of fascistism nazism and communism. Athough I would wonder about some them at the very top of the pile knowing they are defending these cursillo’s as not a cult. Would they not research cult’s to defend there position and find out there something to these allegations. Either they are ignorant or they are duplicit. My guess they feel the good out weigh’s the con’s. These method’s work ask your War veteran’s who sacrificed themselves to free the world of these ungodly philosophy’s of control and manipulation which is the sin of witchcraft.
February 22, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Jason
Just got done with my walk. It was quite fulfilling. I watched the Holy Spirit do a good thing in so many of the men that were there. I have to admit I am puzzled by some of the comments here. I could write a lot about the positives of the experience, but feel moved to counter some of the writing above.
It isn’t a cult: nobody forces you to stay and you could leave at any time. Of course they will try to change your mind–I would try to change your mind–but you are not held captive. There were phones all over the facility I was in. They ask–but not force–that you leave your cellphone at home because it is a distraction of the secular world. I’m hooked on my iPhone, but can certainly acknowledge the benefits to leaving it behind. It’s the same with the watch. By checking the time you think about what you might be doing at that moment if you were not on the walk. Ignoring the clock helps you focus on what God is saying to you.
It isn’t a secret: While there may be a certain sense of secrecy it is there to preserve the sense of surprise and wonder as Christ’s love and the love of fellow believers is revealed to you. However, there is nothing on the Emmaus Walk that cannot be shared with others. Shame on those of you in the Emmaus community that allow this to drive wedges between you and other followers of Christ. On the other hand, for those that haven’t been on an Emmaus Walk, it can be difficult to describe the experience, which is why some people don’t even try to explain it. You can’t explain it a minute, or ten minutes, or thirty minutes without diluting it for your listener. I remember once when I was a child my mother tried to explain to me what the beach and the ocean was like, but I never really understood until I went and saw it. Its the same with Emmaus, you have to go on a walk and experience it to really understand.
It doesn’t follow a script: I really can’t understand where this one comes from. The only script read during the entire weekend was two or three lines to announce each speaker. There were no other scripts. None. Period.
The Music: Awesome, but I suppose this one depends on who you get for your music leader. Our walk had a guy who had been doing music ministry for 30-some years and the whole weekend was filled with current Christian praise & worship music.
Singing & Swaying: I think this happens on every Sunday at every service of contemporary christian praise and worship in the USA, so I’m not sure what the problem is. However, if that’s not your thing then you don’t have to do it. Simple.
Orchestrated Vision of Heaven: I really don’t understand what this means. I assume it may be a reference to the candlelight ceremony. This ceremony is designed for one purpose and one purpose only: to show the “Pilgrims” that they are deeply loved by other Christians. That’s it. No visions of heaven involved. The men in my group were deeply moved by this event.
Scripture tells us that others will be able to tell that we are Christians by our love. That is the primary purpose of the walk to Emmaus: to show that God loves you in a deep, profound, and unconditional way, and also that other Christians love you as well, even though they might not have ever met you.
As Christians, we should know that unbelievers’ anger towards us is more often a reflection of their own spiritual or personal garbage than anything else. Similarly, if any of you are angry at the Emmaus community, or someone who has been on walk, then I might suggest some introspection. Remember the words of James, that “man’s Anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.”
If you are not a brand-new Christian I would strongly suggest you consider the walk to Emmaus. Especially if, as it was with me, your life as a Christian has become too easy, comfortable, or complacent. Take a risk and sacrifice just 72 hours of your eternal life with Christ to see if the Holy Spirit can nudge you out of your comfort zone and do a good work in you.
June 9, 2010 at 2:25 pm
beverley
Thanks for you insightful report. I am encouraged to go on my 1st walk. I am one who with take hold of the positive more so than the negative. I do agree that everyone will have a different experience. It all depends on the open mind and open heart and the willingness to trust God and only God.
June 11, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Tom
“It doesn’t follow a script: I really can’t understand where this one comes from. The only script read during the entire weekend was two or three lines to announce each speaker. There were no other scripts. None. Period.”
Your team was a good one, in that you did not recognize the “scripting.”
In fact, the Lay Director, Assistant Lay Director(s) and Spiritual Director work from a “manual.” The “manual” includes everything down to welcoming speeches. A weak Director may read directly from the manual, and look like it. Another may read directly from the manual, but apear to be speaking spontaneously. Another may speak semi-spontaneously, but hew closely to the text included in the manual.
http://www.upperroom.org/EMMAUS/whatis/structure.asp
…
The Upper Room Walk to Emmaus is a tightly designed event that is conducted with discipline according to a manual that is universally standard. Emmaus is offered only with the permission and under the guidelines of The Upper Room. This ensures a proven format and a common experience that should be trustworthy from weekend to weekend wherever Emmaus is being offered.
…
July 1, 2011 at 10:44 am
Sharon
…… sounds like you all drank the kool-aide ………..
March 3, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Debbie
Wow – some of these comments have made me very angry. As someone who has worked 6 walks since my original walk – most of what I’m reading that people are upset is due to the lay directors, workers, and returning pilgims doing the exact OPPOSITE of what they should be doing, what they are instructed to do and what the printed materials that prepare you to serve or sponsor tell you to do! They make it very clear at the end of the walk NOT to come back and act like you’re special or better then anyone else, that there aren’t any secrets and in fact non-pilgrims are welcome to come to cluster meetings. All of the walks I’ve been involved in were FULL of laughter. The person who said there are no scripts is wrong – there are scripts that the lay directors and spiritual directors use and it is so that every group hears the same thing. But the 15 talks are not scripted – they just have to include the same basic points. The people that were apparently bragging about their walk #’s – once again against the model. In our community (Heart of Georgia) they have asked us to not wear pins from former walks that we’ve worked to avoid that exact thing – showing off. The whole point of serving is to do it anonymously. No one is MADE to take of their watches or cell phones – but they are asked to for the reasons stated earlier.
But I also realize that even if the walk is run the way it should be – according to the model – that the walk is not for everyone. I also know that the table groups make a huge difference. My husband did not have an enjoyable experience and it was because he had a poor table leader and an even worse asst. table leader. They hogged the conversation, tried to run everything with the artistic responses and would tell people they were WRONG when they’d share their thoughts! They were terrible and that is NOT what a table leader is supposed to do.
And an earlier post basically said – if you didn’t like it there’s something wrong with you. Which is also a total turn off and uncalled for. Everyone is different. Except for my husband, everyone else I know has loved their walk and come back on fire for the Lord.
I would like to point out that the original author’s comment about the cold shower – that’s the facility – that is not an Emmaus thing! LOL I’ve always had hot showers!
To the lady who is upset with her family – have you told them how upset their secrecy is making you? If you want to contact me, I’ll tell you every detail I remember if it would make you feel better. I don’t tell people everything because of the Christmas present analogy – but everyone isn’t like that. If you need to know every detail to feel comfortable about going – I’ll tell you all that I can remember!
I guess my bottom line here is that every community, every walk and every experience is different. But most of the things that people seem to be upset about are not supposed to be part of the walk. The first night didn’t bother me – I don’t know that I got much out of it – but it didn’t scare me – but I went into the weekend thinking that at the worst I was going to waste 3 days of my life! But for people who are nervous or scared coming into it – a night of silence probably isn’t the best way to start the weekend!
June 8, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Penny
Thank you, Debbie. You’ve made a difference for one potential Walker.
March 15, 2010 at 5:07 am
Deb
You know to be honest my initial walk wasn’t so great but keep reading. I was a very shy person and being in a room full of strangers was terrifying to me. My table leader seemed to exclude me instead of include me. The talks were wonderful and really touched me so much. That was back in 2000, Walk 38 table of Ester. But I did see the body of Christ, a clear understanding of His Grace and the love was overwhelming and the ladies in my cabin were so dear to me.
Since then I believe Emmaus did exactly what it was supposed to do in my life which was make me a stronger leader for my church family. I saw that it was not impossible, through the testimony of several lay people who spoke, for me to serve God even more in my church and community.
I have gone back time after time, I’ve given two talks which was an amazing exeperience. Yes there is an outline but the story line is your life story and is only scripted by the Holy spirit as he leads you as you write. The speakers bare their souls just to show you how God has changed or worked in their lives. I’ve also served on the Prayer team numerous times and the worship team seems to be where I’m placed most often.
It’s 72hrs of selfless devotion and submission to the leading of the Holy Spirit and I’ve seen and heard over the years so many wonderful testimonies.
Next month I will be working walk 78! I can’t wait to see what God does on this walk. Maybe you need to return and serve one time then you can experience from the other perspective as a servant. Then you might see how the focus truly is on preperation for the pilgrims and obiedience to the Holy Spirt.
Your letter is very well written and I do believe you were blessed, maybe a bit judgy but still God did bless you. I am sure you are a blessing to your church too.
Blessings to you and DeColores
March 16, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Tom
I’m sorry to read about the negative aspects of your experience. However, I’m glad to read about the positive aspects as well.
I will confess to you that my initial reactions some years ago, on “Men’s Walk #2″ in a new community were similar, however, having participated in a somewhat similar several years earlier, I found myself thinking, “These people need some practice.”
The feeling you had that you were being read to from a script is unfortunate. In my experience at least, during the preparation for a “walk” we encouraged speakers to make their talk their own. On the other hand, there are key concepts to communicate. (So, it’s a balancing act.) In later years, I know greater emphasis was placed on a stricter adherence to “the outline.” (It’s been some years now since I’ve participated in a weekend, so I don’t know exactly where the emphasis is placed today.)
As one becomes more familiar with the structure of the weekend you realize that it is not 15 separate talks so much as a single talk delivered in 15 segments. In order for them to flow from one to the next, to a logical conclusion, a certain amount of structure is absolutely necessary.
And, hey, let’s be honest here, some of us are better speakers than others. So, while some of us can read from someone else’s prepared text, and make it sound like we’re speaking extemporaneously, others of us cannot read from our own original text, and make it sound sincere. Some of us can speak from an outline, while others require a word for word transcript. c’est la vie.
If your community is getting wrapped up in “secrets” they’re missing the whole point. If they want that, they should join a masonic order. I tell people that the weekend is all about reminding us of the basics of what it means to be a Christian.
If it feels “cultish” then they’re missing the whole point. The point of the weekend is not to add members to an Emmaus community, but to strengthen local churches. (The Emmaus community cannot replace the local church, nor should it attempt to.)
If people feel coerced or pressured, then something is wrong. (As my Assistant Lay Director cautioned us, “Don’t shove the dove!”)
As for the “surprises;” having been on team on multiple Emmaus Walks and Chrysalis Flights, I can honestly tell anyone who feels they have to “keep the surprises special” that prior knowledge absolutely will not diminish the experience (having experienced them multiple times, I would still be moved to tears, something which seldom happens to me.) Starting a Chrysalis program, we actually had youth at planning meetings, who had never been “on” a weekend. Honestly folks, the weekend was not spoiled for them.
So, as other have suggested, please, please, please, take your concerns to your Emmaus Board (be warned though that they may ask you to serve.)
May 30, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Donald Duck
It is very distrubing that those who have been on the Walk consider themsleves better that those who have not. I have been asked many times to go on the walk and when I say NO, the answer I received it that I don’t know what I am doing, turning down such a wonderful event. Maybe so, but it is not for me. I am a retired UMC pastor.
May 30, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Tom
“It is very disturbing that those who have been on the Walk consider themselves better that those who have not. …”
Yes, it is disturbing, especially since that’s not what it’s about, or… not what it’s supposed to be about. In fact, participants are told exactly this on the 3rd day of the weekend. (i.e. that going on a weekend does not make them better than those who have not.)
Assuming the best, let us say that they have experienced what for them was a “wonderful event” and they want to share it with you. (Compare this to good old-fashioned evangelism.)
For what it is worth, I’ve known several UMC pastors (both active and retired) who have found a Walk to Emmaus to be a “wonderful event” (and others, for whom it was not.)
June 8, 2010 at 11:19 pm
Tom
Penny Wrote: “… The WTE week-ends may be scripted, but not all are authored by the Holy Spirit, obviously.”
Was your post authored by the Holy Spirit?
Penny asked, “… why on earth would former attendees say, “I can’t tell you.”??”
Quite simply, they are misguided. There is nothing that takes place on a “Walk to Emmaus” that cannot be shared.
However, let’s say I’ve just read a great book, which I’ve offered to loan you. Naturally, you’ll want to know what it’s about. On the other hand, I don’t want to “spoil it” for you.
This is essentially what you’re running into.
You can read about “The Walk to Emmaus” here: http://www.upperroom.org/emmaus/whatis/ (consider it the blurb on the dust jacket.)
If you have any questions, I’ll gladly try to answer them.
June 8, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Tom
Here’s a video you may find helpful.
http://vimeo.com/8697255
September 19, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Sharon
If I was going to read a book for 72 hours I would like to take a shower each day. That has *nothing* to do with me asking “what the book about?”
June 17, 2010 at 1:08 pm
grandpajohn
As someone who was 70 when went on the walk (walk 36 Foothills Emmaus in SC sat at the table of Mark) I want to ay amen to what Debbie posted above,
I was one of those men who originally signed up to go because my wife wanted to go and of course they encourage couples as much as possible. Needless to say I was also one of those who was surprised at the blessing I received, while my wife was one of those who was less than over whelmed. One thing I think that influences our reactions to the walk and is often overlooked is that of the individuals personality, this I think especially in our case determined the overall perception we had of the walk. Now my wife did make several friends there but the way in which the walk is constructed does not fit in with her personality and demeanor. it did mine.
To also echo replies to some of the criticisms, Many of lthe things that were described above by critics are NOT the way it is supposed to be and is not representative of all Emmaus groups policies especially within the Foothills group to which I belong. We also do not make a hlibit of implying secrecy or cult like behaviorl.
I also wonder if the setting of the facility where the walk is held can also have some effect. I know in the case Of foothills Emmaus the location of the facility we use can’t help but inspire a feeling of awe and worship. We are located at the foot of table Rock mountain, and our chapel looks out directly at the mountain and a view of Gods handiwork. Every time I am there I can’t help but think of Psalms 121; 1-2
“I will up mine eyes unto the hills from which cometh my help, my help cometh from the Lord
As some have said here, the Walk to Emmaus is not for everyone, but the only wa to find out if it is for you is to go try it, like me you may find your self surprised.
July 18, 2010 at 9:00 am
Kelly O
I have to admit, I’m glad to read some of the more apprehensive comments, and the honesty of the original poster.
I’m scheduled to attend a Walk to Emmaus this weekend, and am more than a little frustrated with some of the things I’ve encountered so far. I had to reschedule last November due to a work conflict, and had to leave on Friday morning in February because of morning sickness (nothing says “have a great weekend” like getting sick during communion.)
The camp where our walk is being held is two miles from my home, and I’ve found out this morning that I’m “not supposed” to drive and my sponsor is apparently responsible for going out of her way to drive me. I didn’t mind riding with a group in February when it was a couple of hours away, but I feel ridiculous being driven somewhere I could walk if needed.
I’m also seven months pregnant and will not be handing over my cell phone or my watch. Period. My husband will be out of town picking up my stepdaughter from camp, and I need to be available if something were to happen on their trip back. The phone will of course stay on silent in my bag but I’m not handing it over. (And please, it’s not an “attitude” problem on my part as some have insinuated, but I don’t really expect Jesus would want us to be separated from our families, especially if they need us.)
The secrecy is what’s killing me. I was fortunate, after doing some research, to find a tentative schedule of events online so I know a little of what to expect. When I went in February, no one seemed to care about my question of “how much longer will we be?” when it was late in the evening and I was physically exhausted. I simply removed myself and went to bed without watching the movie.
No one has shared a thing. I’ve been told it’s some big secret, and like others have mentioned, I have serious concerns about that. I realize that Emmaus is not supposed to be a cult, but it exhibits some cult-like behaviors – cutting individuals off from their families, isolating them without transportation, taking away watches and other things that provide a sense of rhythm to the day and forcing them to be “on God’s time” (when really aren’t we all living in God’s time already whether we acknowledge it or not?) – I’ve seen abusive “treatment” programs that follow much the same program.
At this point I would like to go to see what all the fuss is about, but I’m not sure how positive an experience I’m going to have, because my personal defense system is up on high alert. I’ve already seen the pressure to wear the wooden crosses with rainbow lanyards during Communion Sundays, which I will honestly refuse to do – it sets apart the Emmaus community, and quite frankly I feel we’re all supposed to be the same when we walk to that Communion table.
And I know, it sounds like I’m going in super-defensive and with a bad attitude, but the best experiences I’ve had personally have involved free time to think and pray and read, with some time for organized activity and worship. I feel like I have to go in with defenses up to make sure I’m constantly aware of my surroundings and not getting caught up in a manufactured emotional experience.
Sorry to go on so long, this has just been bothering me, especially after finding out they “don’t want” me to drive somewhere that’s completely reasonable. I mean, if you are so afraid that I’m going to leave, do you think not having a car will stop me? My pregnant self will be walking down the side of the road if I feel that convicted I need to leave. That just rubs me so the wrong way.
July 19, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Tom
I can understand why you’re frustrated.
I hope (regardless of how the weekend goes) that you let the board of your Emmaus community know exactly how you felt going into the weekend. (You could point them to your post.)
For example, your sponsor is trying to be a “servant,” but it doesn’t feel that way to you.
As I (and others) have written. The “secrecy” you perceive/experience is a problem. If you ask a question, you should get an answer.
If there really is, “pressure to wear the wooden crosses with rainbow lanyards during Communion Sundays,” you really should speak to your pastor about this. Emmaus is not about creating an “in crowd.”
I hope your weekend is a blessing.
July 19, 2010 at 7:52 pm
grandpajohn
I will echo Toms reply, The secrecy thing should not be. there is not supposed to be any secrecy and the thing of wearing the crosses to communion is also a no no. In our group (Foothills Emmaus) we only wear the cross and our name tags to monthly gatherings. Maybe because so many of our church members have been on the walk, but it is no special deal in our church and certainly no one or group tends to act in an elite manner because they have been on the walk.
Where the problems lie looks to be a breakdown in the leaderships and the walk teams organization or understanding of how the walks are supposed to be run.
July 22, 2010 at 1:35 am
Nancy Humphrey
I loved my Emmaus weekend. A friend sponsored me…took me a year to send in my application and another 9 months to get in our community..just before Christmas, 2004. I thought briefly about postponing, but didn’t…best decision I ever made in my life. It was a truly awesome weekend, from the very first talk. After my walk, I sponsored my daughter on her Chrysalis Flight, then my husband on his walk in May, 2005. Ever since then, we’ve worked as a family on walks and flights.
It is no cult to believe in Jesus Christ. If you see this type of propaganda, then that is Satan talking! This is truly a spiritual weekend for promoting future spirtitual leaders in your church.
Everyone will not get the same experience from the Emmaus Walk or Chrysalis Flight/Journey. That’s okay. God works in his own time.
However, if you are called to go on your walk/chrysalis/journey from a friend, family member, church member, please do not ignore this sign from God.
God Bless You,
Nancy
August 12, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Jay
I too have some trepidation about going on a walk. Lots of my friends have been, including my wife, and I have received lots of encouragement to go. Sometimes the encouragement feels like lots of pressure, but I think it is intended in a good way.
I have been very concerned with the secrecy component of the walk. I understand the intent, but I cringe with I hear those “I can’t tell you” responses. I think that there is lots of pressure NOT to tell, and even my wife’s responses tell me that she feels “under agreement” not to tell. We happen to have a good friend from church who is inclined to resist things he think are hurtful and unnecessary, and he has offered to tell me everything about the walk, answer any question, and even show me his “team” manual/book if I want to see it. I appreciate the offer, and will consider it if I decide to go.
I have also read a good deal about the walk (including a schedule of event, a description of Dying Moments and Candlelight, etc.), and wonder what the big mystery is. I think that someone could have told me all of what I now know and I could have STILL had a great experience – and I would not be so skeptical going into it. It is rare that knowing what is coming ruins what comes, and I sometimes wonder if the secrecy component is not a little overplayed among past Emmeus participants.
What also pushes my buttons a bit is the exclusivity of the group who has been on a walk. I have very sensitive radar to times when there is a “in crowd” and an “out crowd”, and even my well-intentioned friends give off those vibes. Part of this is the meetings that I know happen from time to time. I have been through experiences in the past that had great impact on me, and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. The fact that there are “pilgrim-only” meetings sends a bad message. Even the special crosses that are worn by attendees is strange to me – sort of like a fraternity pin. All I think an attendee should need to wear is a smile – that is enough for me.
So, I am left knowing that I should not to until my defenses are down a bit, but that has not happened in over a year – so it might never happen! I understand the intent of the walk, and see it as a positive thing. However, I do not like that the messages sent by some of the practices – and by some attendees- has made me resistant to go.
July 23, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Christ is all you need
Anything that is intended to be a secret between a husband and wife is unbiblical and NOT OF GOD.
July 23, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Christ is all you need
Meant a secret that is kept from a husband or a wife
October 25, 2011 at 3:21 am
Walked away
I agree. It is starting to disturb me also that the men’s and women’s weekends are separate, because I’m starting to think it is not because “we’re more comfortable and open with our own gender” but in order to isolate people. (My retreat team also made sure friends were not assigned rooms together.)
I know that if I had had my husband with me to offer emotional support on my retreat, it would have been much less harrowing.
July 26, 2011 at 5:06 am
sheila
You are encountring these manipulation methods these cursillo based movements implement not understanding what there doing. These methods leave feeling like you have to go the walk to be in the know to belong until you do. Be apart of the herd. Playing on our deep need to be accepted in the group
These are cult like control tactic. They are decieved into thinking they are helping you to not spoil a surprise. The word ‘occult’
mean to be hidden secret cloaked
No person or movement has any right to get between you and your spouse period!!!! I not saying walk of emmaus is a cult but implement cult like tactic can you see how cults can get a spouse to have more loyalty to the cult then to their marriage or family
I realize reading these post we as believers we need to know the ingredients of a cult so we don’t get decieved even a little. I encourage you and your wife to get educated about cults from christian resources. to never allow anyone one to try inflence your marriage or decisions
October 25, 2011 at 3:23 am
Walked away
Yeah. Exactly. I don’t think people know what they are doing, a good friend invited me–she’d had a great experience on her weekend, and she certainly had no idea. Everyone had the best intentions but they just couldn’t see that it’s not shocking or dangerous to leave the group because you want to go to bed… the little “temporary cult” culture that the program creates had blinded them. Within that culture, leaving the group at any time for any reason was NOT OK.
August 15, 2010 at 9:26 am
Kelly O
Thanks for the discussion of the walk here. I did go on my walk, however I left immediately following the Candlelight service. While it may be a very spiritually moving event for some people, I was apparently not moved in the correct ways, or the expected ways.
I’m not a fan of manipulative experiences, and that was the main criticism I have for the weekend. It felt like we were being directed toward certain reactions to the words and experiences we were having, and I felt very out of place not having those deep emotional moments (although I have a personal opinion about emotional responses that’s probably not appropriate for this forum.)
I have a more detailed review posted on my blog you’re welcome to read. Overall I don’t know that I would recommend someone else attend, but that’s my personal opinion.
August 15, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Tom
“… It felt like we were being directed toward certain reactions to the words and experiences we were having …”
Naturally. There really is no such thing as a completely objective presentation.
Whenever a presentation is made, there is a reaction the presenter wishes to produce in the audience.
If the presentation is artistic, the presenter wishes to produce an emotional reaction, and perhaps to convey some information or lesson.
If the presentation is scientific, the presenter wishes to convince the audience of the validity of a particular interpretation of data. Even if no interpretation is explicitly presented, data will be presented in such a way as to tend to lead the audience to a particular interpretation. (The invitation to, “draw your own conclusion,” whether explicit or implicit, is not sincere.)
If the presentation is of a religious nature, the presenter wants the audience to accept certain beliefs.
August 18, 2010 at 6:21 pm
John
I have to start by saying that the experiences some of you have had with their Walks and those who have been on a Walk is certainly sad and disheartening but not the experience I had at all. My Walk removed most of the callous skepticism I had about life and I am deeply grateful that my sponsor loved me enough to encourage me to go. I was deeply sketical about going on my Walk and I can only assume that is perfectly natural for all of us, I was somewhat ashamed after the fact to think that my sponsor had any other motivation when he encouraged me to go. The Walk to Emmaus is about God’s love plain and simple and if you are considering going please just trust that the person encouraging you to go is doing that out of their love for you.
I briefly struggled with the knowledge that I would not have control over the weekend, I have a detailed schedule for work each week being a Regional Manager over a large sales territory and not being in “control” is perhaps what some are dealing with…it was for me. If you think about it none of us are really in control, God is most certainly the one steering the boat. If not knowing what will happen during your walk bothers some of you it is a rational apprehension that everyone else is going through. Please find comfort in the fact that those serving you on your walk will take great care of you to give you the best experience they can, if they fail at all it is becasue they are human like the rest of us. Take a leap of blind faith and give it a shot wiht an open mind.
Romans 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding”
To all who have friends and family that will not divulge any of the events of the 72 hours please encourage them to share what they can of the weekend and let them know that their secrecy is acting as a negative. It is not a cult, no one bites the head off of a bat, there are no seances or ouija boards and certainly no reason for those indiciduals to hide the experience. We were told multiple times throughout the weekend to share with others and that being on a Walk makes us no better than anyone else. We were certainly told that acting as an elite group will be a turn off and using Emmaus lingo like a code will only act as a means of exclsion to others. Reading the posts above it seems as though truer words have never been spoken.
Sorry to ramble on but I hope these comments help at least one person out there and I can’t wait to be asked to serve on a Walk someday so that I can be close to the experience again.
June 5, 2011 at 3:32 pm
betsy
i’ve not been to wte but did a cursillo wkend in about 1997,just before attending seminary; heart of florida,#1, table of ruth… my pastor/sponsor always used to say; it’s not about cursillo; it’s about christ; that was the best answer and encouragement i’ve heard re: secrecy and elitist tendencies…
August 31, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Sandy
I went on my Emmaus Walk in June 1999 and it was very difficult for me – I needed to give God the “junk” that was keeping me from acepting on a very personel level the love He offered me. The Spiritual Directors and team were so loving and in touch with my needs. My sponsor was terrific -she explained the weekend to me. Even if she had told about candlelight it would not have prepared me. It was so beautiful. It was so wonderful to see people who I did not know sharing God’s love with me. Since my walk I have served on many teams, the local Emmaus Board and in my home church. I have learned that I am loved by God and my brothers and sisters in Christ for who I am. I have learned to give everything over to God and trust in His goodness. Most of all I learned that God didn’t turn away from me, I wasn’t listening for Him. Showing the love of Christ to others is now a priority for me.
Not everyone will have the same experience as I did and this OK. Each of us is at a different place on our journey with Him. As my sponsor told me “go with an open heart and open mind” and you will hear and see Christ this weekend and I did!!!
September 20, 2010 at 9:54 am
ed
I went on my walk in 2006 (WRE). Since that time I have attended and assisted on many others, including being on team. It was a fascinating experience and while I admit very confusing. hectic and at times appearing disorganized – everything was incredibly well planned and had a purpose. There are things the team cannot let the pilgrims hear or see as it would ruin the experience for them.
Decolores!
ed
September 27, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Janice Kellam
thank you so much for posting this, I have been asked to go many times, felt uneasy about it, there was just always something in me that was just not comfortable with it so I chose not to go although several tried to guilt me into it. I believe it was God telling me it wasn’t for me. I am a very emotional person anyway, & we all know satan tries to feed things like that. I will rely on my God, not my emotions! You have done me a great service!
September 28, 2010 at 4:56 am
Christian
It is very sad that this program even exists. It is a sick program that uses faith for mind control. Many who have completed it have a superior attitude who look down at those who haven’t. There is something so not right about this.
October 13, 2010 at 9:22 am
Brenda
My Walk to Emmaus was the most incredible and amazing heavenly experience I’ve ever had here on earth. I have NEVER felt so much love before in all my life. And it’s certainly not a cult-like atmosphere. That is so far from the truth. I was set free. Emmaus brought me closer to Christ and help me put my priorities in order: God first and family second.
As far as being secretive…if I just saw a good movie I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to come home and give you all the details….especially the ending.
November 19, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Margaret
I am so taken back by some of these posts. For me, my Walk to Emmaus came at a very horrible time in my life. Everything in my life was falling apart and although I was nervous about what would take place on my Walk, it just kept getting better and better by the minute for me, even when I didn’t understand some of it. God allowed me to feel loved as I never had before and it was HIS love through some very selfless acts of kindness and servanthood through HIS people who wanted to “give back” even a small piece of what they themselves experienced through God, perhaps even on their own Walk. God allowed me to “breathe” for the first time in a very long time and over and over He repeatedly reminded me that I needed to “Be Still and Know that He is God.” He gave me this message to let me know that things were going to be alright, even in the midst of some very bad times. I needed that weekend to draw closer to Him. To feel refreshed and empowered. Since then, I have worked one Walk (support team) and will be working my next one in the Spring as a musician. I have to say, I am very honored and nervous at the same time. I don’t want any bit of my role in the weekend to be about me, but all the glory to go to Him. I am praying that God will direct my decisions as to what songs to sing, etc. The entire expereience for me will never be forgotten. I feel very sad that others have not had the same experience or upliftment in their Walks. I also feel very sad that some of the more negative posts are discouraging other readers who have never attended a Walk from participating in one of their own in the future. I am also sad to see that some people view those who have been on a Walk, worked a Walk, or who have had many years of Emmaus service “under their belts” as having a sense of arrogance or superiority. Perhaps, that is an incorrect view entirely, or perhaps, the person or persons displaying that behavior need to humble themselves. One of the posts said it accurately… the Walk is about God… not about any one person at all. Not about the lay director, the workers, the musicians, or even the pilgrims (although it is our desire that great things of and for God will happen on every Walk weekend and touch the lives of each and every Pilgrim and Worker alike). In everything we do in life, we need to remain focused on God. If we lose that focus, it allows room for Satan to creep in. He will plant seeds of doubt, negativity, fear, selfishness, and so forth. People will always fail you, but God NEVER will.
One of Satan’s largest tools is disception…he comes to seek and destroy any way he can. If the Walk is not something truly of God, why would Satan even waste his time seeking to destroy it? It’s obviously a threat to him, because many great things work to God’s glory on these weekends, many lives are touched and changed. Many people are renewed for Him. Many people let go of burdens they have carried for so very long that only gets in the way of their personal relationship with God…at least to experience that relationship to the fullest. Satan has his tools, but God has HIS tools too. Some of them, I believe, are the Walk to Emmaus, Chrysalis, Kairos, Journey, Cursillo, etc., etc.
To Jennifer (post dated Feb. 22, 2010), although I personally do not agree with a lot of what your post stated, I do want to say that I AGREE with your comment that “Your Christianity is no better that mine just because of Emmaus!” My Christianity very, very much isn’t better than anyone elses for ANY reason, and especially because I have attended or worked a Walk to Emmaus. It has, however, been impacted by it, and God allowed me to experience all that He had in store for me on my very special weekend.
Jennifer, you spoke of the hurt (my interpretation) and betrayal that you felt because your own “loved ones” were keeping the events of the weekend a “secret” from you. It is because they love you that they want everything to be a suprise. It is because they love you, that they long for you to accept that they want only the best for you, so you don’t have to fear, doubt, or resent what they are telling you about their experience (or even not telling you), in that the experience is one they want you to go through as well. Please consider attending a Walk, if anything, just to experience it all for yourself, but please, do so with an open heart and mind. If you still feel the same or differently, this website remains open for your additional comments. I would be interested in hearing from you further. For some reason, you have stood out to me amongst many of the other many posts and my heart feels burdened. I will be in prayer for you that you no longer carry those feelings of betrayal by your family. I have had those same feelings in the past (for different reasons, of course) and it is a very difficult emotion to endure. Perhaps, that is why my heart goes out to you. I don’t want to offend you in any way. I just believe there to be a reason I came across this website (for the first time) and that you made an impact in my life today. Thank you for sharing.
December 22, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Brent
I’ve never been on Walk To Emmaus because I’m just a teenager, but I went on Chrysalis (the youth version) in the spring and I served a few weeks ago. Over the past half a year, I’ve found that there are so many different communities and that they are all different. My community, Delmarva, seems really different compared to the ones you’ve all described. The team is packed with real people, not religious people, and the board is really just concerned with loving the caterpillars and bringing them closer to Christ. Each of the talks has an outline for the speaker to go by, but I was told that it is just a suggestion. I didn’t stick to my outline to every point and I was not kicked out of the community and I was even told that my talk was a wake up call for some of the caterpillars. In my community, if someone wants to know the “secrets” about the weekend, alls they have to do is ask a board member. And the team doesn’t have this whole whispering thing going on because our goal was to bring people to Christ. Humor is also a big part of the weekend for us. One of the pastors said in his talk… “Adam ate the apple to become smarter. Okay, you’re in a garden, naked, with a beautiful girl. Why on earth would you want to be smarter!” (just off the top of my head) Chrysalis IS kinda uncomfortable to go through. You are taken out of your comfort zone and things that you think are necessities, like time, are taken away from you. But isn’t that how God works? In the Bible, they were never comfortable. That’s how God worked in them and changed their lives. Saul didn’t become Paul until he was blind for a few days. The disciples had to leave their families and everything they knew and loved to follow Jesus. This “cult” is designed to take you from wherever you are in your walk with Christ on day 1, and bring you closer to him on day 3. My lay director was drug addicted when he took his walk and 5 years later he was leading the guys walk. I heard stories of entire families giving their lives to Christ through it. One of my friend from church whom I’ve know since before 1st grade gave his life when he went on his walk. My best friend of 8 years gave her life to Christ on the girls walk. Chrysalis helped me to put to death some of my sins like porn addiction. I encourage anyone who wants to make their walk or flight (for Chrysalis) to pray about it and listen to whatever God calls them to do. Sometimes God calls us to step out of our comfort zones. Let go and let God.
January 13, 2011 at 2:01 pm
Bill
It has been my experience for seven years that people who have seminary education don’t experience the same thing at The Walk to Emmaus as those without a seminary education. I wonder why? Are they more judgemental? Do they think that since they’re educated in theology that they know everything about God? Jesus didn’t admire those in His time that thought they knew so much about God. We have to strip away what we’ve learned and come to Jesus as children.
The Walk to Emmaus is not for everybody. A few people have “a God moment” at the walk and many more do not; but the sacrifices that the inside and outside teams as well as the 4th Day made just for you and the other “pilgrims” may still be something of a mystery to you even with all of your education. The best kept secret in Christianity is how the Holy Spirit works within us as we become better acquanited with our Lord, Jesus.
My advice to those who haven’t attended one of these walks. Do so! Nothing ventured nothing gained!
April 6, 2011 at 10:48 pm
garrison linn
I am sad to hear that your experience was not as good as possible. My experience was wonderful. I also felt the incredible love and sacrifice from all of the people behind the scenes. Also the chance to spend real time getting to know a few of my brothers in Christ was amazing and i will never forget it. I went into the weekend with the same concerns that it seems you had however all of the seemingly not so wonderful parts of the weekend ( no phones, no clock, set schedules, being gently pushed out of my comfort zone and into partisipating) really helped me open up and focus on what the weekend was about. And to answer anothers comment about pilgrims being second rate citizens…..that is the sillyest thing ive ever heard. I was made to feel like i was the most important thing that weekend and i watched it happen to others all weekend long.
April 27, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Yoli
I too attended a Walk to Emmaus Sept 2010. Though my experiences were not nearly as horrific as some of the postings, it was not entirely poistive either. I must commend however the love and dedication of the leaders and my sponsor but I cannot grasp the concept of not being allowed to know what time of day or night it is or how long (in real time terms) will an activity last. In this camp I was surrounded by the beauty of God’s creation yet never got the opportunity to enjoy it and spend some alone time with God nor was I able to become aquainted with my roommate as there were 15 long talks that had to be crammed down plus countless other pre-arranged activities. Also, before leaving the camp I was instructed to not tell of my experiences. Though I felt extremely loved by some of the surprises, saddly it was overshadowed by much frustration….. I hope Emmaus allows some flexibility in these retreats as it can make for an amazing experience.
June 25, 2011 at 11:27 pm
David
Have been reading through this, as I have been concerned about the issue with secrecy and this retreat. I am not sure if this thread is dead, but in case someone reads this in the future -
There are lots of responses above that give a typical Emmaus answer – “I will answer any question you have”, or “there should be no secrets”. Well, there are secrets, and people are often evasive and hope that you will give up before you ask the question they DON’T want to answer. So, here are the secrets -
The Candlelight ceremony is seen as the biggest one. Even in current Emmaus newsletter, some folks make it clear that this is the one secret you should try to keep at all costs. The ceremony is held the last night of the retreat, and consists of past retreat participants gathering and singing and holding candles in a ceremony for the current/new participants. There may also be some sharing about the prayer vigil that has been going on all weekend. You will likely know some people at this ceremony (from your church). Only people who have been on a weekend are supposed to go, but I know of non-Emmaus folks who have been smuggled in to some of them.
There are also Agape letters and items left for you. The letters are, in some case, a surprise. They may be from family, friends, folks from your church, etc. Letters of love and encouragement, mostly. Very nice to get those sorts of letter. There will also be fun trinkets left in your room from time to time – tacky/funny little things but that are meant to express love.
And, there are other small surprises. You get a cross and lanyard at the end – not sure why that is surprise, since people talk about their crosses all the time – but it is supposed to be a surprise. There are also special services/themed events, like a communion service called “Dying Moments” where you are supposed to “lay down” an issue or “monkey on your back” and let it …. “die”. Can be a nice experience.
That is about it. Nothing bad – no paddling or forced labor – but simple things that can take on a life of their own when treated as secrets. God is bigger then any human secret, so the weekend shoudl work even if you know these things.
July 1, 2011 at 10:13 am
Lisa
The format of Walk to Emmaus was the issue for me. The speakers/talks were out of this world! But that was only about 13-14 hours of the 3+ day event.
I felt pressure by my small group and the staff to grab onto the feverishly pitched emotions – “emotionalism & misrepresentation” as the original writer stated. I, too, felt I was entering an animal sacrifice event on the 2nd night. And, news flash ……. you *can* sing without wrapping your arms around strangers and sway while you sing.
There is no reason for adults to have no idea where they are for 3 1/2 days and no way to leave. Even if you snatched a cell phone from a staff person you could call someone but if you have no idea where you are no one can come and collect you. Bad format.
If this format continues they need to at least give you time to take a shower. But they want you out of your comfort zone to creat the feverishly pitched atmosphere.
July 1, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Seeking the Truth
I have had a number of people from my church that have gone to the “Walk to Emmaus”. When they returned, they were aloof, unfriendly and eyes looking beyond you as if you didn’t exist. This is the way the Pharisees acted…Jesus called them a “generation of vipers”. The Gospel is not exclusive. I’m not sure why people feel like they have to have another “experience” if they have already accepted Christ as Savior. When I accept Christ as my Savior and receive His gift of the Holy Spirit, I have all I need to “walk with Him”. If you feel the need for additional “experiences”, maybe it’s because you’re not, as Paul said, “walking in the Spirit” or you have not met the Savior. Does your life exhibit the “fruit of the Spirit” already? Then you don’t need the walk to Emmaus. Christ died for all, not a select few. Christ said I am the way, the truth and the life and no man comes unto the Father but by me. So the door is open, Christ is that door, not some emotional roller coaster experience. “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” I don’t find many people who want to live for Him that way today. They have to have something additional. Paul said, “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth”. The Truth is God’s Word…not some spiritually shallow “experience”, with shallow theological teaching. The other issue is that this type of meeting originally came out of the Roman Catholic Church. Anything that comes out of the RCC is not of the Truth. “…Choose you this day whom ye will serve…as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15
July 23, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Christ is all you need
Couldn’t have been said better.
July 5, 2011 at 12:42 pm
court
I realize this post is quite delayed with the original blog post as 9.29.2009 – but as I was searching for Emmaus notecards for an up coming walk, your blog post came up in my search. I am saddened that your walk experience was less than joy-filled, but I hope that you left feeling, if only slightly, empowered by the Holy Spirit to go back to your home church and continue on the path of service God has called you to…
Emmaus isn’t a self-help weekend, or a fix-it seminar…it isn’t a cult or a secret society…the Walk to Emmaus is an international organization, inspired by the Holy Spirit, but run by very human beings. There is a script, but I think script might be too strict of a word. There is an outline – with certain pieces and parts – not too different from formalized liturgy for a baptism, communion or church membership. As Christians, we are disciplined and part of discipline is putting an order to things – and as Christians we continually seek God’s guidance with our “order” to ensure that we are doing in His will and not our own (1Thess. 5:21).
I can’t speak for your Emmaus community, or any outside of the one in which I volunteer, but the goal for the board is always to bring individuals closer to the heart, mind and spirit of God…When things go awry or have the opportunity for improvement, we try and make things better – always seeking to put God first, the pilgrims second and the community third.
I don’t know you, but I pray for your forgiveness and your generosity of spirit for all of us who are Christians, involved first in our home churches and second in the eccumenical community of Emmaus. I apologize that you were hurt, that you felt there were secrets being kept from you, or that the experience wasn’t genuine. Unfortunately we often fall short of the Glory of God, but we should always keep striving.
I hope, in the last two years you have found forgiveness for the community to which you were called and for your sponsor…Emmaus isn’t for everyone…but Jesus is and I hope that your Emmaus experience did not put a door between you and God and you and God’s people – but rather a window was opened to a new way of living in submission to the Spirit.
May God continue to bless your walk with Him and the ministry to which He has called you to.
July 17, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Anna Burton
I personally agree with many of the comments made here. I don’t like the “secrets.” The Bible does NOT approve of secrets. My husband just went on a walk and is a better person – so I am curious, but will not likely ever participate due to the secrecy of the event. Anytime a husband and wife can not discuss something openly, much less has been sworn to secrecy is against all my beliefs. Sounds like a “masonic” kinda thing to me. Good Luck to all – I hope you find what you are looking for.
July 24, 2011 at 11:27 am
grandpajohn
if your husband was required to an oath of secrecy then the people running the walk were NOT following the prescribed order for a weekend walk, no one is sworn to secrecy. and no if you have doubts you should NOT go on the walk
. not everyone is suited for the walk, my wife wasn’t although she did go. I have read several letters on here describing Walks in which there were things involved which are simply not part of the basic precepts of the walk. And I have read letters in which the walk was enjoyed because it was performed in the way it is outlined to be.
As in any endeavor that is carried out be different organizations there will always be some who are overzealous or carried away with their own self importance and ideological self concept of how things should be. This failure to achieve the purpose of the walk falls on the team running the walk, not the concept of what the walk should achieve.
July 24, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Pinkpansy
Actually, I was one that “escaped” (as one writter described it) before
the weekend was over. No one could tell me how writing rap song and info commercials would bring me closer to Jesus. (Actually, they would just smile condesendingly and say nothing. Well, if you are running this event and you don’t know…why are we doing it?) When we were walking from the meal room to the class room, I must have took a step in front of one of the leaders and was immediately told I was not to walk in front of any of the leaders. Another time, one of the “Chas” was going to take a group of pilgrims to another building and was barking orders from the other side of the room not to touch the door until she got there. I begin to feel like I was in prison and if I didn’t get out of there, I would go nuts. I did not experience any of the love that is expressed by others.
Since my husband’s experience was really good and so many of our church members have had good experiences…after saying what I did..I am going to give it a second try. I thought the weekend was to come closer to Jesus. Since you spend more time with other people, I am just going to work on building relationships and see what happens.
July 23, 2011 at 9:30 pm
SAD
My son was invited to Chrysalis in OH by trusted friends. We attend a non-denominational church with these people and trusted them. The vigor with which they pushed him to go along with secrecy and the “no phones” created more suspicion then I ever would have had otherwise. Praise God that my son was strong in the Holy Spirit and was unaffected by the weekend. He enjoyed the letters but thought he could have done without the rest. When we, his parents, questioned some of the practices, our lack of involvement, and the secrecy we were attacked with the “elitist” bullying. They have basically shunned us and determined that we have brainwashed him on his experience.
This is why I go to a non-denominational church.
Christ is the only thing worth dying for, all the rest is man-made.
Retreats are great!!! Chrysalis/Emmaus is NOT a retreat. Go on a retreat, have your own, schedule one with a fellow Christian, but DON’T GO TO CHRYSALIS OR EMMAUS!
July 25, 2011 at 11:19 am
sheila
Is Walk of Emmaus rooted in communist Spain?
Walk of emmaus good or bad or both.
My friends went on a the tres dias conferance. Tres dias came out of the Catholic cursillo movement like the walk of emmaus. My friends were being secret making me feel left out like I just had to go to find out. One man was emotional and could not explain why going around saying ‘don’t anticipate.’ Oddly enough I did research on cults months before. Red flags went off in me. From what I gather it is not the doctrines that are the problem. They may change from oraganization to organization the problem is the so called ‘Methods’ that came from spain in the 1940′s when the cursillos started. Spain was a communist country it is not far fetched that the brain washing techniques from communists seeped into these cursillo’s and off shoots. Like walk of emmaus. There is sugar coated secrecy with in these organizations and it’s not justified.The word ‘occult’ means hidden or secret. I don’t doubt people had genuine experiences with the Lord. The talks on the up and up. It’s the making sure you can’t leave. Being Seperated from friends spouses to think and reason with (isolation)..Not leaving you alone, my friend wanted to lay down a lady didn’t leave her alone. They made her go to the next talk and lay on couch, she couldn’t go to the bathroom alone. She felt she wasn’t suppose to confide in me about the weekend. Peer pressure to go along. Altered reality,no responsibilties play like children. All day program to tire you;wear you down. Even the overwhelming love and acceptance is simular to what cults do, arguably that’s what we should be doing. Walk of Emmaus and other cursillo based movements appears to have simuliar methods cults use; subtle mind control & manipulation. Does God need man’s methods do His work?
I would describe these conferences like brownies with a little bit of poop in them. Mostly good but would you want to eat it, if you knew? And if you didn’t know the poop was there, and didn’t taste it .You would say the brownies were wonderful! There is no poop in it. Some people here tasted a little bit of the poop and some only tasted brownies.
God gave us His Spirit intermingled with our spirit to help us dicern truth.
Good and evil are at work side by side in this world.
July 25, 2011 at 9:54 pm
seedy
David of 6/25/11 thanks for your input. I am not impressed with the “We’ll answer any question, just ask. there are no secrets” mantra. Why should I have to figure out what question to ask? How would I know what to ask? Just tell me about it.
there is a little that touches some of my concerns and why i don’t go. And when i tell my concerns (I have been invited 16 times), the responder still says, “I think you’d like it,” instead of acknowledging that I have legitimate concerns that should be addressed. It’s like a robot or broken record though mp3s are beyond that. Concern 1: it isn’t a place to debate doctrine. Sorry but if you are going to ask me to listen to your doctrine, be prepared to hear my opinion. Concern 2: trust me (no thanks) Concern 3: no real free time, or from the comments, leeway to deviate (though I understand why I just don’t want to be on the clock so to speak)
Doctrinal issues. I know one of the talks is on prevenient grace and I’m into reformed theology. It wouldn’t jive with me. And the last talk is on perseverance. WTE probably doesn’t jive with me in that area. So here’s a question in the form of a request: post the perseverance talk right here.
July 30, 2011 at 2:36 pm
nate
@Blogger
I appreciate sincerely your evaluation of the Emmaus experience. I’ve been on a Walk and agree with many of your points, though in a number of respects our experiences were not the same. It strikes me that some of the evaluations you made were generational. While I was, at 27, the youngest guy there, the ‘liturgy’ was progressive enough that I did not feel it was an issue. The people, too, were not elitist in anyway. Did they seem to have a strong bond of friendship with each other that I did not yet share, certainly; but the same thing can be said every week of a summer camp at which one has returning campers. The same thing could also be said of every youth group or church. The question is never whether or not there will be groups of friends who are closer to one another than others, it is rather whether or not these groups seek to include or exclude others. My Walk experience was that they wanted to include all of us.
Leadership in the Emmaus community would do well to hear your concerns, especially the leaders of your section/ conference/ … thing. Have you considered directing one of your sponsors to this blog or writing a personal letter to them explaining your concerns? Like every other ministry of the United Methodist Church, ecumenical or otherwise, TWE needs young Christian men and women to speak out and help the church maintain (reacquire?) relevance in a changing world.
@general
I will agree that the secrecy is a major turn off. Being a programmer at a camp, I knew the basics of what was coming on a number of events, including/ especially the ‘heaven experience.’ There was a surprise for me in it, not because of the programming but because of the singular effort of one of my sponsors (my mother) to be involved, but the general format was basically what camps and camp meetings have been doing since the 18th century. As a camping person, I’m a proponent of such an experience. However, knowing what was going on and recognizing that it was coming did not in anyway reduce the experience of God’s presence in it. This is not a critique of others or a suggestion that they SHOULD have felt God’s presence in it. The fact is we all experience God differently.
In all fairness to the leadership, it is difficult to capture with words what goes on in this experience. Capturing any experience with words about a programmed activity is very difficult. Additionally, I don’t remember it being set up as an experience of what heaven will be like, but that might be because I often ignore things I don’t find helpful in my own spiritual journey. Being a natural cynic I have to choose to do this at times, otherwise I would spend my entire life tearing down the means by which I’m being encouraged to grow with God rather than trying to build my relationship with God.
That being said, I LOVED my experience. I recognized a truly powerful Christian community which genuinely wanted me to be a part of it. I also experienced God powerfully and he confirmed (enforced?) a call to ordained ministry at that weekend. If not for that weekend I would not now be in Seminary.
What TWE is doing is filling a GIANT HOLE in the ministry of our churches. I grew up in the United Methodist Church and, until I got to College and got involved in a campus ministry, could not have told you anything about Christian Doctrine. TWE is filling that hole in a decidedly Wesleyan fashion, through camp meetings designed for both intelligent discussions of doctrine and facilitating experiences of God. This is not to say that there are NO churches out there teaching doctrine, only that there are many mainline protestant churches which aren’t.
@seedy
It sounds to me like The Walk to Emmaus is probably not the best fit for you. I encourage you to look for opportunities to get away from the daily grind and seek out experiences of God and Christian community, but do not necessarily suggest TWE. I will try to address a few of your concerns from my experience.
Concern 1: I don’t know that I agree with you that there is NO place for the debate of doctrine in TWE, but I think that you will find many of your debatees under-equipped. I went in to my Walk having been born into Methodism, but having become a Christian through Reformed theology. There were a number of things that I didn’t fully agree with, but I realized that a. none of them were vital to being a true Christian, and b. there were those at my table for whom it would be a negative experience to have been party to such a debate. To borrow an analogy from Paul, TWE is trying to help people move from the milk they are fed continually in many home congregations to eating meat. When first learning to eat meat it would be detrimental for someone to place six different cuts of steak in front of the learner, demand that they eat them all, and require them to choose which cut they prefer. The goal of TWE (as I understand it) is to get them eating meat, and then to support them in community afterward as they try different cuts, finding the one they prefer.
Concern 2: There’s nothing I can say to this. What little my parents (my sponsors) were not willing to tell me about the experience I simply trusted was for my own benefit. Since graduating college my parents’ and I have built a relationship in which I know that they have my best interests at heart. If the sponsor has not built a relationship with you that encourages this trust, then I suggest not trusting them. We are to be ‘shrewd as snakes’ after all.
Concern 3: I did not find this to be true. While there was definitely a program to be followed, there were also a number of points at which we had unstructured time. That being said, the Walk is designed to be a retreat for doctrinal education and spiritual renewal, not recreation.
As I said, I don’t know that TWE would be a good fit for you. There may be other retreat experiences that would be more fulfilling. I do suggest finding some way (and you may already do so) to escape the daily grind and experience spiritual renewal on a regular basis.
October 25, 2011 at 10:05 am
Walked away
This is what I say to your answer to Concern 1:
- Maybe your weekend was different, but I am a “meat Christian” who has studied a lot of doctrine & Scripture and done a lot of programmed & unprogrammed spiritual growth, and to me there was nothing but milk. Christianity 101, instructions on the need to read your Bible, pray every day. I was profoundly bored.
- Your thing about the six cuts of meat struck me, because what it seemed more like to me is that we had six steaks (bowls of milk, whatever) placed in front of us and were told “Eat this. You’re done? Okay, now eat this one. No, you have to eat it, it’s very important that you not stop eating.” (Obviously this has nothing to do with your point about not presenting doctrinal variations at first etc.) The guys at my Christian college, since they couldn’t drink, used to try to outdo each other in who could drink a whole gallon of milk within an hour and not throw it up. (It never worked.) This was similar; I threw up. A more appropriate context for doctrinal education is a weekly or even daily Bible study, which leaves time for each lesson to soak in, be thought about, and lodge in the participant’s long-term memory.
Well, in any case, I really appreciate your honesty and your openness, as an Emmaus member, to not inviting everyone and saying that other retreats might fit some people better.
October 17, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Jay
While each denomination that sponsors a Cursillo offshoot probably tailors it to their own theology, I doubt that any would tolerate high octane Reformed theology. And certainly it is not a place to question what is fed to you. In my particular experience, some of the material used came from the original Roman Catholic source and taught (1)that Mary brought redemption to the world as she suffered with her son in his crucifixion, (2)invoking departed saints for protection against sin and harm, and (3)even things that I cannot even imagine Rome teaching: e.g. Jesus saying to us, “I walk with you; Though you are you, and I am I, yet we are truly one — one Christ” And our praying to God “I offer you my death for my own sins and for those of all humanity.” (Everyone’s Way of the Cross, Clarence Enzler, Ave Maria Press, Norte (sic) Dame, Indiana 46556) Good night! So not only is Mary co-redemptrix, but I am co-redeemer? Then during one of the early lecture sessions (on Grace), the lady preacher who was “Spiritual Director” spoke from John 3 and insisted that conversion and the new birth were lifelong processes. Probably every weekend is difference, and every denomination’s expression is tailored, but my experience was not doctrinally consonant with any version of Reformed theology.
Concerning structure: my synopsis is that it is a cross between kindergarten (every move is subject to their control, and woe to the person who doesn’t comply with the minutiae of the script) and a boot camp (being roused at 5:30 AM by a clanging bell, except for the final day when they promise to let you sleep in — until 9:00 AM nonetheless — but then come at 4:30 AM and get you out of bed and marched out into the wet dewy lawn while they regale you with 30 stanzas of a 3 verse song — telling you that they are doing this because they love you). One comment was that Comrade Stalin could have learned a few things from this crew.
The food (and this is not a facility issue – the people doing the cooking and servicing are part of the program) was cold and of insufficient quantity. Some of it was prepared and set out 3 hours before it was served. By the end of the week it was explained that there was more available, you just had to ask. But even when you asked, the food was not available by the time you were required to leave. You couldn’t serve yourself, because they wanted to serve you. But they wouldn’t serve you, because there were too many of you to keep up with.
And those who indicate that there is no free time and scarcely time for personal hygiene and toileting are not exaggerating. We had 18 lecture / discussion / response sessions in addition to meals and 9 worship services in 3 days.
About secrecy: every question was met with no answer except “trust me.” We were instructed not to talk about the weekend. “What happens here stays here.” On the other hand, there were no blood oaths. The surprise birthday party analogy fails simply because the was no pleasant experience that would be spoiled.
About cell phones and watches: they were confiscated the first evening. Leaders went through the congregation and demanded that they be turned over. My wife and son were in an automobile accident during the middle of the weekend. I’m glad it was no worse than it was, because they couldn’t reach me, and I didn’t learn of it until the weekend was over.
So was it all bad? No. Those who were patient in tribulation (being treated like kindergartners in boot camp) actually could feast of the choice morsels of scripture in the worship services, and the Biblical viewpoints of some of the 18 presentations. Some of that was extremely good. (And while not necessarily jiving with Reformed soteriology, it might at least be thought of as consonant with Kuyperian views of Christian living.)
And why did my sponsor recommend that I go? Not for the program! Knowing I was new to this geographic area he thought it would be valuable networking for me.
July 25, 2011 at 10:03 pm
seedy
btw, the link to the upper room video is the creepiest
August 25, 2011 at 7:34 am
Hilary Frazier
I don’t know what kind of music you experienced, but ours was so spirit filling! I wanted to sing for the Lord in such a joyful way! And the visions of heaven thing….maybe all walks are not the same, because I don’t recall that at all. We had the “dying moments” at the cross on our walk, which was a little hard for me. Not creepy in anyway, just hard. But I walked away from my walk feeling like I was overflowing with his spirit. That I truely knew God’s love now and oh, how I wanted to go out and share that love with every person that I met! I wish everyone could feel the love that I felt from God on that walk…and every day since then.
August 26, 2011 at 11:15 am
Cliff
I am ex miltary, a firefighter and very much about the “journey”, of my life, not so much the end. I told my wife, who had already been on a walk, not to tell me about what I was about to go through. I was struck by so many people posting about being made uncomfortable by seemingly “losing control” of a long weekend. Rooming with a stranger, no phone ( I don’t have one) and living to an unknown script, could be unnerving to lots of people. My thoughts on all these postings, None of us are ever really in “control” of our lives, we react to the moment to moment challenges we are handed. When the challenges/problems wear us down or we have too much new information, we lose control.
There were no armed guards holding me in a compound, I could have called for my family to get me at any time and in fact several of my group did leave for various reasons ( though not because they wanted to opt out) I could have walked to the road and hitched a ride.
People love a conspiresy ( sp) There is something in the human soul that looks for an older, deeper and sinister foundation for whatever is happening now. The crusades, Musilim expansion, slave trade, mind control, world domination. Folks that do not have a solid understanding of what is happening to them, esp if frightened, look for a connection that gives them a reason to feel the way they do.
For the people that had issues about the way WTE personnel treated you, I’m sorry, I wish that some volounteer had been more understanding of the way you were feeling. I know once slighted, It is easy to let that hurt dominate everything. Just because someone is a vol, (and they are only there because they found something they want you to have) does not give them special knowledge on dealing with others. If they are pushy before they will be pushy, loud, excitable, ect, after. They may need some understanding too
WTE is a tool, like boot camp it is designed to remove your focus from what is outside, and refocus it on WHY YOU ARE THERE. Personnel relationships are wonderful but that is not why you started the journey, The rapid pace, the things you wear, are designed to renorm you temp, so you can learn
October 25, 2011 at 10:36 am
Walked away
Yes, but why should you have to hitch a ride? I’m a young woman, would you truly like to hear that I had hitched a ride just to get away from an Emmaus/Cursillo weekend?
Well, yours may have been better than mine; it does encourage me to hear that several people left (out of family necessity or things like that, I presume.) *Nobody* left my weekend except me, and I am still amazed that I was able to do it given how hard people tried to stop me. People–especially women among women–can use sweetness, politeness, and their own hurt feelings against a person much more effectively than physical control. If someone had tried to physically restrain me it would have immediately broken the bondage I was feeling and I would have felt free to run, because their act would have proved they were in the wrong. The source of the bondage was this: that they clearly *all* thought they were spiritual and I was acting in a way that was unspiritual, messed-up, even scary, and that they would all talk about me afterward and be worried for my soul or at least my spiritual health or sanity. They would be the good ones and I would be the bad one. It was resisting the shame and the fear that this brought on, that was so hard.
And they were wrong. You can say I missed out on a great spiritual thing if you like, I won’t contradict you because shoot, obviously I wasn’t there for whatever-it-was so how can I know? But I *do* know that the fact that I walked away was not a sin and does not make me a messed-up or unspiritual person compared to them. I wanted some sleep, not because it was more important than God but because it was more important than making meaningless posters that were not teaching me anything about God, and then I was profoundly creeped out by people thinking it was so shocking for me to have gone to bed at 10:30 without their permission; I am sorry, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is godly to use human authority (or supposedly spiritual authority) to deprive people against their will of a normal amount of sleep or of the chance to clean & purify their bodies.
September 19, 2011 at 7:22 pm
Kim Jones
The thing that may or may not be a secret is no longer a mystery at all by the end of the weekend. It’s also not painful or shocking or any other “yikes” type thing. It’s just a lovely surprise.
And it’s not even really a rule that it can’t be shared beforehand at all costs. Ask anybody – if not knowing would keep you away, anybody would tell you. It would be a shame to miss out on the opportunity because of fear of the unknown. I fear the unknown, so I get that. But I lurved my WTE in ’85.
I worked a few teams after, but haven’t been involved in lots of years. I found this because I was Googling around for Emmaus songs – (now I’m a little embarrassed to discover that I am, apparently, an old fuddy-duddy for liking those.) Instead of “Sister, Let me be Your Servant,” I found this.
Don’t miss out if you get the chance to go. And don’t have a big old fight with your husband because he doesn’t want you to know everything that happens until you know. He’s not trying to deceiver you just forever-and-ever; he’s trying to give you the same lovely event he experienced.
I do offer this in Agape ~ God bless you all, regardless of whether you are an Emmaus Alumnus or never go at all. It’s the same Jesus we all love and serve.
Oh … Aldersgate Emmaus 13 in 1985, Table of Ruth.
September 24, 2011 at 10:28 am
Poboy
My WTE has resulted in anger toward my wife. For 3 yrs she “asked” me to go and stopped asking for awhile and brought it up again so I agreed to go. I asked numerous times what’s it like and what to expect. All she told me was “it’s wonderful, and I can’t say any more” Well Wed I was ready to leave, Thurs I battled God, Fri was uplifting, and Sat I was filled with anger. Why, because there was more that she could have told me! I know because I received a letter with sponsor instructions that made it clear I could have been better prepared, however someone told my wife not to say “anything” about the experience. It’s been a week and every time I see or hear the word Emmaus my anger swells up even more. I know my wife would not intentionally hurt or mislead me, however I didn’t leave with joy but full of anger. No cluster or reunion meetings for me, it will just swell up more anger. I’m thinking I’ll just put Emmaus in the category of a bad pizza and not go back there any more even in my mind. Any suggestions??
January 2, 2012 at 2:17 pm
ShariCakes
I am sorry…I am reading these comments in reverse but @D. Timian is right if your community is asking its participants and members to keep secrets then they are failing the program, its mission and its future pilgrims. THERE SHOULD BE NO SECRETS. I went on a Chrysalis Flight when I was 17, I had no idea what was going on I found it very uplifting and life changing. But that is me – years later after teams etc etc I returned and went on an Emmaus Walk as a pilgrim and it was very similar I knew about all the happenings that were planned and I didn’t openly divulge the “Surprises” but made it clear that I would explain that no one would be forced into anything etc. So I would find out who in the community is calling for secrecy and such and squash it. It isn’t right and it will hurt people. That isn’t what it is supposed to be about. God Bless.
October 4, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Rooivalk_pilot
I did the walk , yeah sometimes things don’t seem the way we were used to as we were brought up with, but hey it did not seem out of line. I am a pesimistic person and always scrutenies all things in life. The first day I was a little suspectfull about the walk,. I then realized that nothing was forced on a person. You could interpret the information any way you want. I never had differences in my mind about what was said and what i was taugh my whole life from the bible. It was very educational for me and I took al I had from my passed summed up in 4 days. It was nice to get all in order again. I wish to return the favour and serve on the next walk. Sout Africa …for Jesus!
October 25, 2011 at 10:40 am
Walked away
So, I’m curious. What happens at the end? Since I walked away on my last day and will never go back, you certainly won’t be spoiling any surprise by telling me. Maybe if I know what I missed the Holy Spirit will convict me of having so little faith in the program?
I’ll be glad to give you my email address, because obviously it would be silly to post it here for everyone to read including those who’ve never gone.
January 4, 2012 at 11:23 am
Jay
Hello-
did you get your answers to your questions? I will post answers here or to your personal e-mail – I am not one for secrets, so I do not care who reads it
January 27, 2012 at 6:13 pm
Walked away
I have to confess most of my purpose in asking was to be a little challenging. But I guess the person never came back and read it anyway.
I guess I am still a little curious. I know about the letters from family and friends, because I’d previously written one of these for someone else. It sounds as if there’s always some type of service, with some “special” stuff whether it’s candlelight or whatever. And then there’s the ending service, where people give testimonies about how great the weekend was, and get their crosses and all. Maybe that’s all of it. If there’s anything more and you have spare time to tell me about it, I’m curious, but no big deal. Thanks.
By the way, I’ve written my walking-away story now, and it’ll probably be posted over at questioningcursillo.com soon if you happen to be interested.
February 2, 2012 at 10:43 am
Jay
Walked away, I would be happy to send you schedules and other information if you would like. Buckman98@hotmail.com is my address – send me a direct note if you would like.
October 25, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Walked away
Incidentally, though my retreat was the Brethren Way of Christ rather than Emmaus (but I gather they are very similar, not really changed that much from Cursilo), I would be more than happy to tell anyone all details of what happened at mine. Unfortunately (sort of) I don’t know everything that happens the last day since I left midmorning.
October 26, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Walked away
Just wanted to leave one more comment just so I can select the “notify me of follow-up comments via email” option… this is an important conversation & I would love to see it continued. There are NOT a lot of places on the internet where this is being talked about.
November 3, 2011 at 1:25 pm
D. Timian
I think you will find someone like you, with the same observations on every walk. In our community we shun the secrecy idea. When I sponsor, I tell both husband and wife that there are no secrets and if they ask about something I tell them.
I’ve been to more than few closings and I always wait for the obligatory, “was like a little piece of heaven”. I am never disappointed. I didn’t see it on my walk but I wasn’t thinking cult indoctrination either??
Now to my point, if the music on your walk was lame, become active and change it. There are no rules from the Upper Room about music. We do current as well as some of the better old classics. When I work a walk there is a drum machine present as well as a keyboard for the synthesizer. We also have acoustic and solid body guitars. If the music is lame on your communities walks, it’s your fault.
November 16, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Lynette
I once heard someone describe the Emmaus experience as feeling like you spent a few days sitting on God’s lap being loved. As a parent does a child. Obviously not all of you feel that way – especially our original writer.
My experience finally made me realize that a relationship with God is just that a loving relationship with God. God loves ME, and I serve Him. It isn’t about religion or church.
I have never worked an Emmaus weekend, but I have been actively involved for over three years with the Kairos community – this is similar to Emmaus, but the participants are prisoners. We have men volunteers that go into the prison during the day for four days – Friday and Sat are 12 hour days in the prison. A group of women work outside the prison as support team. We make agape, cook for our men, and pray.
To date we have had over 300 inmates participate since this program started at the local maximum security prison. There are men that went through the first time and still come to prayer and share on Friday nights.
These are all powerful programs. If you are willing to open your heart. Participate don’t anticipate (that means you don’t need to know everything that is going to happen – just be open to it and participate)
November 22, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Yoli
“like a little piece of heaven”? If heaven is anything like a weekend in emmaus i certainly don’t want any of it…and i am not talking about secrecy or cult like stuff. I must say there were nice surprises and showing of love. But the need to cram down so many endless talks and programs were unnecessary and exhausting. Many of us were cranky and wiped out by day three. That last morning I had a meltdown and cried as I longed to be home. The day was still full of countless activities starting at sunrise and ending with an extremely long service in which we were not even allowed “a piece of home” for as we walked into one of the buildings late in the evening for the final program on the itineray our sponsors and some love ones were there to surprise us. I was so excited when I saw my husband in the crowd (he has never been to emmanus). He was at touching distance but we were not allowed to touch. My husband told me later they were given clear instructions of this and the workers made sure to create a barracade between us so we would not break the “do not touch” rule. This retreat though with good intention is a far cry from they joy that our Father and Savior Jesus came to give us and has for us in heaven.
I will be sure to disclosed my full experience “good or bad” to someone else cosidering going. They should have the option to decide if this is for them and the only way they could do this if by full knowlegde of what they are “walking” into.
November 23, 2011 at 10:21 am
Walked away
I think you’re absolutely right to tell people everything about it before they go.
Yes, the packed schedule with basically no free time or even alone time is really something. You would think that in all the years this program has been going on, that they would have figured out a way to make the schedule more livable. (If it’s really important to get all that learning into it, for example, they could lengthen it, or offer evening courses for a week beforehand.) Unless it’s on purpose. I wonder if the “little bit of heaven” many people experience at the end might actually be a combination of the feel of the special service they have at the end (the candlelight, music, whatever) and profound, perhaps unconscious, relief about the end of such a grueling weekend!
Actually, there’s a website dedicated to this question. http://www.questioningcursillo.com is the website of a man named Brian Janssen who has extensively studied the techniques used in the Cursillo program (on which Walk to Emmaus is based) and has found that it uses many known psychological techniques to produce an effect of catharsis at the end. (He’s also written a book.) Sleep deprivation is one of them. I found out from experience that most volunteers don’t actually know that you are being sleep-deprived on purpose, it’s not in the instructions, it’s just built-in to the fact that the program is so packed and the volunteers are basically prohibited from skipping anything even if some events go long (with the result that at our walk, the Saturday night program ended at midnight. I did not understand how fifty- and sixty-year-old ladies could put up with it when I barely could at thirty.) But a few do know: one of the top leaders said so to me; she said, not seeming to see anything wrong with it, “The sleep deprivation is to break you down.”
It’s a little like what some people have compared it to above: boot camp. Boot camp is also a place where they “break you down and build you back up.” The difference is, when you join the army & go to boot camp, you know what is coming. You signed up for it. Even though it’s rough, they’re actually doing it to you with consent. Soldiers who’ve been through it are allowed to describe the whole thing to you. At these weekends, instead, it’s “It’s great, you’ll be really blessed, I can’t tell you much more.”
December 9, 2011 at 11:03 am
Yoli
Thanks for your reply; I will be sure to check out the website.
December 10, 2011 at 9:04 pm
suepete
My dear friend gave me a WTE weekend as a birthday gift. She had tried to get me to go on several occasions, and I was able to find an excuse not to go as I was turned off by the secrecy and what seemed to be an inordinate number of meetings she attended following her retreat. When I received my “gift” I decided it would be a good time to go, and after all we can all use some spiritual uplifting. I can honestly say, there was nothing about this weekend that did anything for me except to encourage people with reservations not to attend. I’m an independent and outgoing person so I went with a positive attitude and the prospect of meeting new people. I did meet new people, but found little positive about the experience. The schedule was relentless and exhausting. I’ve yet to understand how upper middle class women giving little gifts to other upper middle class women was anymore than wasteful and silly. I kept thinking of the money spent on this junk could be used to fill food baskets for the hungry or to a deployed soldier. We had a couple of good speakers and I was always sorry when their talks ended because I knew I would be sent back to my arts and crafts table to plan little skits that reminded me of Vacation Bible School I attended as a child. The candle light service was pretty, but that’s about all I can say about it and the elaborate dinner again to me seemed to be excessive and unnecessary. At the end of the experience a microphone was passed around for attendees to praise the program. I passed, and my friends was surprised and I believe a little disappointed. I knew about the letters as I had written many of them in the past for others who attended, and it’s always nice to read something about oneself. The “sell” to be a volunteer reminded me of one of those multi level marketing meetings where people just keep pushing to close the deal.
To me, this program is a waste of money that could be used for the needy. I left feeling as if I had been somewhere I shouldn’t, doing things that were anything but Christlike.
The only positive experience I had was being roommates with a woman who had just gotten out of prison. She and I had some serious talks in our limited time about forgiveness and God’s love. She had been sent to WTE by a well to do relative who thought this weekend would “fix” her. On Saturday she called a friend of hers who was a drug dealer to come and get her.. She said she had been in prison long enough. I absolutely understood her point. I wish I had gone with them, and would have called someone myself, but I was stuck out in the country 50 miles away from home and just didn’t have the heart to ask anybody to make the drive.
I’m sorry to write such a negative review as I know many of the people involved are absolutely well intentioned, but it’s important to know that not everybody sees this as a positive.
I
February 1, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Jay
Very sorry to hear of your experience, and of that of your roommate.
December 19, 2011 at 10:58 am
Run From Emmaus
I think it’s very important for the less-than-pleased people to have a place to post our experiences. If I had found this site I would never have gone on the WTE.
It is difficult to post what occurred in my experinece and have replies to the effect of “The Upper Room doesn’t condone that – report it to them”. For the people who had good experiences and pro-WTE: there is nothing you can say to change my bad experience or get me see it in “the intended way”. The continuous “That can’t happen” makes it clear that you Drank the Koolaide ……… because things have happened. You can go to the Upper Room website and post all the fru-fru about what a possitive life changing experience you had.
Let those of us who had a different experience have A Place too.
February 1, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Jay
I appreciate your points a great deal. I have learned, through lots of reading, that negative things have happened on walks, and the reponse of “that can’t happen” is too typical. These things do happen, and that response indicates a refusal to acknowledge reality – or a lack of caring about it. If the Upper Room really wanted to change things, they could make changes to the “curriculum”, or be bold and just publish a sample schedule on their site
I really believe that they, as a whole, believe in their practices, and they are not inclined to change them. I would love to be proved wrong!
February 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Run From Emmaus
Thanks – I don’t expect anything to change as long as the program has been around.
I just really wish I had found this site BEFORE so I would not have gone to WTE. There is simply no reason for people to not know about zero free time, 4-5 hours sleep each night, and no way out til the thing ends. If one person reads this and it keeps them from going then at least some good evolved from a horrific experience.
February 1, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Walked away
Yes. I was very glad to find this discussion. The fact is, the “walk” I went to wasn’t even Emmaus, it was the same thing (almost exactly the same–derived from the same Catholic program Cursillo) in another denomination. There are at least fifteen variations out there, some in large denominations, and when I had a bad experience and went looking online for others who had too, I could count on my fingers the number of relevant sites I found–and this was the ONLY discussion.
December 26, 2011 at 8:04 am
Still growing
“Walk to Emmaus!” “Walk to Emmaus!” “ Walk to Emmaus!”
“It’s the latest and greatest thing. It’s awesome.”
Over and over the wannabe pastor pressures the individual – an individual the wannabe has never, ever, taken the time and effort to get to know – in any way – but proclaims, “The Walk, The Walk, this is what you need to do! It’s great. It’s awesome.”
Likened him to a used car salesman. Only worse.
The wannabe says this will be the last time the wannabe will talk about it. But then, repeats the sales pitch, each and every chance. Dec. 8 at this Montana church location. Come to such and such locations, at such and such church. This will be the last chance to see, to sign up. To hear the music that will be played that night. “The music is crucial.”
What the heck is “crucial” music? As in life or death? Call in the next 10 minutes and you get the vegetable slicer at $19.99, but $10 shipping and handling. It’s crucial to call now.
The piano players, guitarist, organist and others play joyous music every Sunday, it’s uplifting. The beautiful-singing singers. They’re a pleasure to see and listen to.
But crucial-playing musicians? Sounds kinds of scary. I don’t think I want to hear crucial-playing music, quite frankly.
He doesn’t belong to the church, but name drops. “I know him, and this guy, he runs the Walk. There’s great guys. You don’t know them? I do. Go talk to them too, they’ll tell you.”
Tell me what?
“No, I don’t go to church there, but I know them. First name basis, in fact.”
Actually, yes, the guys are around, but they have never taken the time to get to know me – either. These Walk leaders. Kinda like you, now that I think about it.
I know a good Bible study leader at the church. Oh, but you don’t know him.
Well, if you name dropped that person, then perhaps I’d be interested in your little Walk/crucial music sales pitch.
I know a good group of people who serve with the church. You don’t know them either? Not one? Yeah, they are all common folk. Kind of just blend in. And just serve. First thing out of their mouths typically is their wanting to know how things are going with you. Makes you want to adopt them into your family. Contrary to you, now that I think about it. Now that I also think about it, not one has mentioned the name Emmaus
in my presence. Not once.
You don’t attend any regular Sunday bible study? Oh. But then, this one weekend a year is your let-it-all-hang-out event, huh?
This inter denominational group in the city that helps the homeless, you have never even heard of it, you’re not involved in it? Oh. Been around for seven years. The local newspaper in fact, writes about them. Yes, right here in this large city. But, you never heard of them, huh?
But The Walk is what it’s all about, you say? OK. I see.
And you want me to do The Walk? For no other reason than you, who doesn’t know me, telling me in your opinion, The Walk, is the greatest spiritual thing one will ever do. With the crucial music. Get that rubber stamp certification for the direct to Heaven in three days, huh?
And, I’m to believe you? Kind of makes an outside, objective, secular person wonder, “What’s in it for this guy?”
Interesting guy, you are.
In the study group a discussion surfaces infringing on the “secrets” of The Walk. Climbing steps, something to that effect.
“Shooo!” The wannabe interrupts.
“He hasn’t done the Walk.” – you can’t tell him anything.” Sounds like pledging a college fraternity. A secret organization.
Funny, Jesus always seemed to have open hands for everyone at all times. Don’t recall any secrets, or secret organizations in the New. Where he shooed chatty persons who were in, not to tell those who weren’t in yet.
He opened his heart to the prostitute. His disciples were everyday folks. He wasn’t spending time with King Herrod’s inner circle and name dropping about it later. Lest, not anything I’ve read as of yet in the Book.
Man. Man creates all kinds of interesting things – for his purposes. Secret meetings. Secret organizations. High-pressure sales pitches. Crucial music. This started, from what I understand from a Catholic version. In 1978.
Where was The Walk in 1945? In 1776? In 1492? In 1500 AD? 1000. 500? The Bible was around during those dates. I know, I know. It’s centered around the Luke passage. So there’s instant validity?
No thanks. There’s plenty of spiritual growth avenues the Lord makes available in this city – for his purposes – not a wannabe’s, or those earthly 1978 founders.
This is what the Bible messages about. Leaders should lead with open hearts and do so for the Lord. Not for anything, nor anyone else.
Leaders should be qualified to spiritually lead. If they are not ready, and they are doing so for self- serving reasons, to the detriment of the body of Christ, they should be in no position to lead. Because it damages the body of Christ. In fact, shoos people away.
Don’t know a lot. Still growing.
But, do know that.
And the qualified leaders of Christ’s body should be aware of these unqualified individuals as representatives of the church – and stiffle these false leaders. Pay attention. It’s their responsibility.
Mentor them, if it’s ignorance and the heart is open. If not, shoo them away. It’s all over the epistles, the damage false leaders can do.
Charles Stanley recently spoke of the self-righteous, self-promoting pressuring others. Over and over. The damage it does. Until, a lot of times, it’s beyond repair.
And, he also pointed out when one sees this scenario, closely examine and look at the wannabe.
What is the real reason for his used-car-salesman-like sales pitch?
It makes no matter to me that the United Methodist Church supports the Walk to Emmaus program.
When I’m subjected to what I have been by your wannabe lay pastor up in the Montana area, the Lord is telling me stay away, and just do the, consistent daily growth, seek-to-serve, find-fellowship-with-strong-Christians undertakings that you have been doing, and you’ll be fine.
February 1, 2012 at 5:36 pm
john fowler
i agree, with your obvious pre judgement and negative attitude I would definitely recommend that you NOT attend the walk for there is no way you would ever gain any thing positive from it.
February 2, 2012 at 10:34 am
Jay
Still growing, I had to read your post a few times to really digest what you were saying, but I am glad I did read it enough to understand it more fully. There are over-strong “sales pitch” elements used by some Emmaus folks (which is what first turned me off to it). And I agree that some Emmaus community members see the walk as the end-all, be-all spirutual formation event for Christians, and they effectively discount or ignore the many other ways we all strengthen our relationship with the Lord. I, too, have seen people “sshhhh” others so that the secrets would not be revealed, and had others in my church hush their voices so I could not hear what they were saying (even though I often still could). I agree with John Fowler that you should not go on a walk at this point, but whether you go or not is not the most important thing. You should never have felt pressure to go on a walk – there are SO many other spiritual formation oportunities. And, while I may be misreading John’s tone, it seems he may think that there is an issue with “obvious pre judgement and negative attitude.” I think the main issue is that Emmaus practices result, in a number of people, in hurt, frustration, negativity, and isolation. That is the real problem – you are simply responding to a flawed program. You do seem very upset and somewhat bitter, and I get that. I do hope that you are able to come to a more peaceful place about this stuff, since negative feelings can really wear us out and eat us up (as they did to me for a long time), but the problem is not you.
January 2, 2012 at 2:04 pm
ShariCakes
I would suggest you contact the Upper Room anyway and tell them the concerns you are having with your Emmaus/Chrysalis Community. Many years back a few of us in our community did that. We contacted someone and they sent a representative out to meet with some of us (over a Fri & Sat). We found that we were doing things wrong and that the community and some leaders were too controlling and needed a reality check. So I would contact them and talk to someone. Any community should do that because the purpose and vision will get lost. During many team meetings the concern over sleep and free time was often discussed because we did not want to be viewed as such a “cult” community. I wish you all the best. And this is not a weekend experience for everyone. God will always meet you where you are at.
God Bless.
February 1, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Jay
I do like the suggestion of contacting the Upper Room folks, but I will tell you that I have done this to some extent – and I have contacted local leadership of the local community. Sadly, mostly the local folks simply reply that most of the things I do not like are mandated from the Upper Room guidelines (and there is a sense that they will be “called on” things that deviate from standard practice). The Upper Room folks have been friendly, but I never felt that they would ever change things in a substantive way. Their model is very rigid, and I think they are very hesitant to mess with it.
One thing to remember is that the Emmaus community has some members who are both very involved and very devoted to keeping things as they have been (more focus on secrets, etc.). There were some posts on Facebook a while back – when the Emmaus cross design was being changed – in which some people were upset that the cross was changing, that not everyone would match anymore, etc. Until the focus is on God and NOT on tradition and matching symbols, issues like this will continue.
February 1, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Walked away
Yes, the model is rigid because it is designed a certain way, using psychological techniques to have a certain effect on your feelings. It all works together, that is why they say things like “don’t anticipate” and “the weekend builds” (so that’s why you can’t skip any of it.) If they did take out a certain part because people wanted them to, it might be less effective psychologically and they know that–or at least the original designer knew, which is why he incorporated such strong warnings against changing it.
For instance the sleep deprivation. My friend who sponsored me thought it was just that the schedule was kinda full, but the “rector” who I talked with in trying to leave my own weekend said straight out, “The lack of sleep is to break you down.” Apparently she thought sleep deprivation was a good way to become open to the Holy Spirit? I think it’s simply a good way to become open to the power of suggestion.
These are very sincere people. I think this woman sincerely believed that since these techniques were being used in the service of God this was good. But I think the means *are* the ends… so we need to stop using these kinds of means.
January 4, 2012 at 11:50 am
Jay
Glad to see that this conversation is still going on – I have posted on here a few times, and check in on this conversation from time to time.
I have really been thinking of this issue for a long time. I went through a period of time when I stopped going to my church because I felt so excluded (most of my friends there had been on a walk, and I have not). I have significant issues with many of the methods used on the walks, though I know that most people involved on teams have the best of intentions.
In the end, what really bothered me a great deal was the fact that non-Pilgrims (those who have not gone on a walk) cannot go to a Candlelight service for a friend of theirs, and are not supposed to take part in the weekend’s Prayer Vigil. Any organization who would not want a loving Christian to be a part of their service or vigil – solely because they have not been on a weekend – is too exclusionary for me. Any assertions that Emmaus is not run like a club or fraternity/sorority (and I think that the fraternity comparison is terribly appropriate) will fall on deaf ears until those practices change.
January 4, 2012 at 11:55 am
Run From Emmaus
A M E N – fraternity/cult concept, sleep deprivation and emotionalism ….